Flying With The Doors Off Avid Mark 4

[Knuckledragger 135]

I can't seem to find definitive information on this. 

Can one safely operate without the doors?

if so, what are the ins and outs?

i realize a quarter folded sectional on my knee might be a tad difficult...

[Av8r3400 1179]

I've run my plane up to 100 mph with the doors open with no ill effect. 

[thebriman 69]

Ive flown with one or both doors open.  Ive flown with the doors removed.  climb is slightly hindered by the extra drag.  they say not to slip into an open door.

[Knuckledragger 135]

Thanks guys!  So I think I'll try with the doors just open first.  I was a little worried that an open door would start 'flapping' and smack against the bottom of the wing.  I replaced the gas struts that hold the doors open recently.

Sounds like you are having a great time with your plane.

Yes!  I finish up for the year today and am looking forward to several weeks of plane time!  I really enjoy flying this plane.  

[C5Engineer 1170]

The aerodynamics of the wing will hold the door up against the bottom. Just make sure your struts are adjusted so that it's not contacting the wing when full open. Also practice closing and latching your door from your seat on the ground. It's tricky resching out and grabbing it while flying. Be prepared for the extra drag! The first time I took off with two people and both doors open was my last. After that I always waited till cruise to open them. It's very obvious if you make an uncoordinated turn with them open. I have also heard to most certainly not slip into an open door as it pressurizes the fuse and the possibility exists to blow the turtle deck off. As you probably know the turtledeck provides the upper bearing for your flaperon tubes and is required for flight. I like to stick around 55-65 mph with them open as it's just more pleasant. A nice summer evening just before dark and cruising along at 60 watching the world go by with the doors open is sure hard to beat!! 

[FredStork 453]

I'm doing a 3rd version that I highly recommend, I fly with the doors closed but open the windows... Much less drag, less risk of stuff falling out, can be used even by newbie passengers (opening the door in flight can be a bit scary first time you fly), great for photo...

And installing windows to open is a perfect winter project. Details and more photos on my blog, June 18th post

Nothing beats flying with your elbow out the window on a hot summer day... 

 

[tcj 150]

Nothing beats flying with your elbow out the window on a hot summer day... 

 

Flying with your elbow out the window wearing a short sleeve T shirt with a pack of Lucky Strikes rolled up in the sleeve.

[dholly 718]

No personal experience to add but I have heard the distinction that flying with door(s) removed vs. open changes the air stream in such a way that the additional air buffeting in the cabin causes the turtle decks to take a greater beating unless you have added a support leg. This from a thread discussing the loss of someone's t-deck that blew off after flying with doors removed (can't recall if it was Avid or KF). The loss of your flaperon control horn support then becomes an issue unless you've made special provisions for that. Because of that I have always just kept the doors closed. If I need a little air in my face I take the scoot to the airport.

[FredStork 453]

Nothing beats flying with your elbow out the window on a hot summer day... 

 

Flying with your elbow out the window wearing a short sleeve T shirt with a pack of Lucky Strikes rolled up in the sleeve.

..maybe you could chill a few beers if you hang them in a wet bag in the prop wash...

[Bandit 286]

I fly with the door open all the time. Be careful when you open it in flight. The outside handle will slam up against the front spar if you do not have a good grip on the door. The airplane will want to roll to the right real bad. One of the disadvantages of a open door.

[Dusty 126]

Make sure the extra length of seatbelt is secured or it will flap against the fuselage ,because when it happens it will scare five years off your life!

[EDMO 1078]

My Ercoupe had speed restrictions for flying with the windows open because of the rear windows popping out.  Once I put the sunroof on it I could fly it at max cruise with windows down.  I don't like wind in my ears while flying - if I did, I might have an open cockpit plane, but don't like cold ears, or my cap flying off either.  I have seen times when the sun was so blinding I had to put the window down to see the shadowed airport on base leg.

EDMO

Edited 10 Dec 2015 by EDMO

[marksires 484]

Best flying I ever did was getting my seaplane rating at Jack Browns in Florida.  J3 Cub,December, about 70 degrees outside, doing 60mph below 500 feet the whole time with the windows down hopping from one lake to another.  Awesome!

Mark

 

[Knuckledragger 135]

Mark, are you in fl?  I'm just a few miles from jack Browns, fly over it all the time. I'm planning to get a seaplane rating there too so I can start flying my buccaneer!  

[marksires 484]

Knuckledragger,

Yep, I'm up in Lake City (15FL), not too far away.  I've been admiring your buccaneer when you post pictures of it!  I wander down to Tavares ever so often to get some seaplane time at Jones brothers.  Not a cub, but it is closer than Winter Haven!  They have a 150 or 152 they do seaplane ratings in at Jones Brothers as well, but they are more expensive than Jack Browns.  I highly recommend Jack Browns for the rating.  Well run operation, and a heck a lot of fun!

Mark

 

[dynomike 91]

I'm doing a 3rd version that I highly recommend, I fly with the doors closed but open the windows... Much less drag, less risk of stuff falling out, can be used even by newbie passengers (opening the door in flight can be a bit scary first time you fly), great for photo...

And installing windows to open is a perfect winter project. Details and more photos on my blog, June 18th post

Nothing beats flying with your elbow out the window on a hot summer day... 

 

I like that !.very cool

[Bandit 286]

Make sure the extra length of seatbelt is secured or it will flap against the fuselage ,because when it happens it will scare five years off your life!

I don't have much extra seatbelt dangling any more.

[akflyer 1427]

I've flown with my left door open at -30 for over an hour when I broke a couple springs on the exhaust wasn't as much as fun as it sounds :lol:   I fly with the doors open all the time in the summer.

:bc:

 

 

 

[marksires 484]

Nothing that happens at -30 sounds like any fun to me!  Even +30 doesn't sound like any fun, unless it is celsius!

Mark

 

[LSaupe 123]

Thought I would jump on this older thread for some additional feedback.  Sounds like it is possible to fly with one door open?  If so, do they (doors) jump around a bit in the airstream or are they pretty much in one place (I do know mine bobble quite a bit when trying to taxi with doors open).  

Does it make more sense to open in flight at low airspeed or take off open.

[BryceKat 125]

One summer I took the doors off and flew all season that way! By yourself, go up to 3k agl. Slow the plane to 50ish mph, trim the plane up for level flight,  and open your door. Keep a good grip on it, it's going to want to go up into the wing. I slit some rubber fuel hose and put it over the handle to protect the finish. Try both doors open. It's a blast! I slip mine with both doors open, pilot door open pass door closed all summer long. And we have long summers! Only difference in the slips is the whistling sound the airframe produces, you can kinda play a little tune with it! As a side note, if I'm out flying over friends, and I think they can hear, I shut off the engine and yell something choice to them. Ya' gotta love being a Redneck and flying an airplane! Have fun

[C5Engineer 1170]

I took off once with them open and two people and it didn't want to fly real bad. Big hit on performance. There's a lot of extra drag out there. I usually slow down to 50-55 to open mine. 

[EDMO 1078]

Lots less drag and plenty of air with windows in the top part of the doors - my KF2 had them.   EDMO

Edited 30 Aug 2016 by EDMO

[FredStork 453]

I recall a recommendation (from where?) not to open and fly with the doors open above 100 km/h (60 mph). Not really a big constraint. I don't think there is a limitation if you remove the doors. 
The doors will stick to the wing as long as you fly "clean" (the same with windows in the doors like I have but as I open the window to take photos and fly with my knees I have installed gas springs on the windows to keep them open under all conditions). See also http://avidsimonini.blogspot.fr/2015/06/my-best-modification.html 

Make sure you turtle deck is well secured before you slip on the open door side... A slip with both doors open is probably a great way to clean your plane and get rid of maps, logbooks and other stuff... I normally takeoff and land with the doors and window closed, the door, when open, is not really adding any aerodynamic benefit to the wing.

 

[LSaupe 123]

Fabulous feedback.  Thanks!