A new baby coming home

[TJay 1041]

Looks like alot of work I would have a really hard time not ordering new tanks If I had to tear into the wings. What ever you do im sure you'll get er done

[Buckchop 479]

Yea i know Tjay, but at 500 a tank plus shipping to Alaska,,,,,,, ill bet a guy would have almost 700 in each tank, and my bird havin 4 of them and id like to keep 4, thats pretty spendy i say.  Not to mention the pretty much complete disassemble of the fuse end of wings to get the two out and two new ones in.   

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Hi!

I understand that your situation is different, but going in from the bottom of the wing into each compartment is a great way to do anything inside the tanks. Look all the way down in the thread where I have photos of a very good way to go inside the tanks with minimal heartache.

Maybe I don't understand what you need to do. I had leaks, but you could just as easily clean the tanks out and recoat if you wanted without sloshing which I would never do because you can't see the work. With the tanks open you can see everything.

Chris

Edited 13 Oct 2021 by ChrisBolkan

[TJay 1041]

Yea i know Tjay, but at 500 a tank plus shipping to Alaska,,,,,,, ill bet a guy would have almost 700 in each tank, and my bird havin 4 of them and id like to keep 4, thats pretty spendy i say.  Not to mention the pretty much complete disassemble of the fuse end of wings to get the two out and two new ones in.   

4 tanks wow thats awesome reminds me of old ED

[Buckchop 479]

Hi!

I understand that your situation is different, but going in from the bottom of the wing into each compartment is a great way to do anything inside the tanks. Look all the way down in the thread where I have photos of a very good way to go inside the tanks with minimal heartache.

Maybe I don't understand what you need to do. I had leaks, but you could just as easily clean the tanks out and recoat if you wanted without sloshing which I would never do because you can't see the work. With the tanks open you can see everything.

Chris

Cris, what difference u think it makes going in from bottom verse the top? Both side r the same in that aspect, and the holes u cut would make it harder to cleanout, Im cuttin open the top of the wing to clean it out by hand and reseal the tank with a better tank sealer, then glue the lid backon, that way if it starts to leak someplace down the road its the top of that leaks not bottom, i think b easier to fix down the road that way if something eles happens. But i like the idea on aluminum cover on the tank that could b removed down the rd. 

Edited 14 Oct 2021 by Buckchop

[ChrisBolkan 130]

I think there is wood on the top of the wing over the fuel tank. I could be wrong. Also I took the wings off which made it easy to access the bottom. It would be much easier to access from the top if you are leaving the wings on the plane.

FWIW, I have always been concerned about coating tanks to make them ethanol proof. There is always someplace that doesn't get coated, or an entry or exit point that fuel can access the raw fiberglass or the coating just doesn't stick. I use only ethanol free fuel myself. If it were me, I'd strip all that old shit out of there and assuming they are not leaking, put them into service without any coating and use ethanol free.

If it turns out you have a leak, it's easy to pop the covers off because you used sealed all aluminum rivets that drill out SUPER easy and removable polysulfide sealer for tank covers on the plates that cover the holes so you can go back in if you ever have to and seal the leak with polysulfide tank sealer.

[109jb 181]

The pdf shows the  stiffeners in the top of the tank are round foam pieces glassed over. I personally would not do the sealed access panels in the bottom for several reasons.

1. As good as the access panel sealer is it is still a sealer that can fail. Looking up the specified sealer doesn't say whether the sealer is appropriate for auto fuel. It says it is good for aviation fuels but doesn't mention auto fuel or the additives that auto fuel can have that avgas doesn't. I could be wrong on this but a quick search of the manufacturer's website only showed "aviation fuel". If only using avgas then I guess it is fine, but if you ever want to run auto fuel I would make sure the sealer is good for it first.
2. For a fuel tank, if I am going to cut a hole it will be in the top, even if using removable access panels. Even a small leak in an access panel can result in all fuel leaking out. A cutout in the top would only allow what is above the leak point to exit.
3. A permanently bonded panel can be made to essentially disappear except for some pinked edge tapes which are very unnoticeable if done right. Although the access panels shown aren't "unattractive", they don't look as good to me as what can be achieved with a permanantly bonded and covered repair.
4. Not sure on the undercambered Kitfox fuel tanks, but on the Kitfox 4's I have had the tank is 1/4 to 1/2" above the bottom fabric, whereas the top of the tank is flush with the airfoil profile. There are basicall false ribs on the bottom of the tanks.  Doing bottom access panels would either mean depressing the fabric around the panels, or putting the removable panels in the tank and then covering them up with fabric. To access them if covered with fabric would mean cutting out fabric anyway. I would think the Kitfox 5 is the same as the 4 since the wing is the same airfoil. 

Edited 14 Oct 2021 by 109jb

[ChrisBolkan 130]

IMHO, having done the bottom entry panels, and having helped others do the same thing on Avids, they won't leak. Period. Unless one does a crappy job.

I am not familiar with Kitfox wing and tank construction. On Avid's it is definitely easier to go in from the bottom of the wing due to the construction of the wing. The fabric is bonded directly to the fiberglass of the tank. In Kitfoxes, construction may be different. I don't know anything about how tanks are installed in Kitfoxes. 

Bottom line from my perspective is you want to go into the tank where fabric is glued directly to the tank whether it's the top or bottom of the wing, because that is the most direct way to get into the tank AND it allows covers (or how ever you seal the tank back up) direct access to the raw fiberglass of the tank. 

There is no intrinsic advantage to going into the bottom of the tank. 

[Buckchop 479]

Chris, There is no wood on the top of a KF model 5 wing, yes im takin off the wing to repair it. (Im gettin old and climbing up and down a ladder don't sound fun) and a KF wing and Avid wing r almost identical, in the 1,2,3 The discussion we r gettin at is the model 4,5,6,7 is NOT an under-camber wing, ur repair is nice for sure bit don't work for these models, and some of us don't agree with cutting the bottom of any tank out. 
109jb i agree with u 100%, never cut a hole in the bottom of a tank, fuel, oil, D7 hyd tank? Bad idea!!! Been there not doing that again. Hahahaaa. 
Also the wings have 2each 13 gallon tanks side by side in each wing, so the fabric repair will b like 7-8 ft of the wing from fuse out, so a repaint is also in the works for the whole plane. 

[Buckchop 479]

Well we did some playin last night when i took the 5 up to shop/hanger from the house,  taxi’s nice except for that aluminum tail spring it has to go, the lower fiberglass doors have to go and have full glass, and undecided on the spring gear still.  
Ohhhh and she flys good, very comphy and stable, gets off the ground faster than my buddies pa18 that ive been flyin here at the mine. 

IMG_3254.MOV

[ChrisBolkan 130]

that's going to be a fun plane!

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

I could hear it running in the video, but didn't see anything.  Sounded good though!  JImChuk

[Buckchop 479]

Well phoo!!! This place never likes my videos, Hahahahahaaaaa ohhhh well the sound is the best anyways right Jim?

Workin on gettin stuff caught u in the shop for winter so can play with planes YAHOO!!!!!  
 
Almost was going to get a larger prop, but Im surprised at how the 68” 3 blade whirlwind prop pulls the plane off the ground,  like its yanked with the rebound of a bungie cord, played more yesterday and dont think my model one has this kind of get-up-go even at 400lbs lighter plane.  Ill have to say this model 5 maybe my ultimate dream KF. 

[TJay 1041]

Whats the matter with the aluminum tail spring Ill buy it from you if you aint gonna use it.

[Buckchop 479]

Just to bouncy for me, no give out in the rocks here. SO heck yea ill sell it or trade for a good tailspring, also going to sell the tailwheel, but its a maule single arm. 

[TJay 1041]

Just to bouncy for me, no give out in the rocks here. SO heck yea ill sell it or trade for a good tailspring, also going to sell the tailwheel, but its a maule single arm. 

I have been reading some bad stuff bout that spring. But let me know what you gotta have.

 

Edited 19 Oct 2021 by TJay

[Buckchop 479]

Well Tjay i tried to PM u on here but wasnt able to, so if ur interested in the grove gear an the aluminum tail spring make me an offer. Workin on gettin bush gear for her now so it will g going away in a month to someone out there, id think once i lists its going to b gone. 

[TJay 1041]

Well Tjay i tried to PM u on here but wasnt able to, so if ur interested in the grove gear an the aluminum tail spring make me an offer. Workin on gettin bush gear for her now so it will g going away in a month to someone out there, id think once i lists its going to b gone. 

I would give you $35 plus shipping If that sounds good let me know I have no idea what there worth. Others can chime in too.

[109jb 181]

Aluminum tailspring with hardware is $355 if bought new from Kitfox Aircraft

[TJay 1041]

Aluminum tailspring with hardware is $355 if bought new from Kitfox Aircraft

no thanks.

 

[Buckchop 479]

Thanks 109jb, but its not worth that much new, used or hangin on ur wall. Hahahahaaaa and mine is the older style one not the nice fancy cut one they show now-a-days in catalog. 
 We r on the right track Tjay, but mayb $40+ shippin?  But hope u not in a hurry for it, will b a few weeks b4 i get started, always a bag of worms for me this time of yr with shuttin down the mine for winter and payin them damm company bills. Hahahahaaaaa 

[TJay 1041]

Thanks 109jb, but its not worth that much new, used or hangin on ur wall. Hahahahaaaa and mine is the older style one not the nice fancy cut one they show now-a-days in catalog. 
 We r on the right track Tjay, but mayb $40+ shippin?  But hope u not in a hurry for it, will b a few weeks b4 i get started, always a bag of worms for me this time of yr with shuttin down the mine for winter and payin them damm company bills. Hahahahaaaaa 

Yeah Ill take it Mr. And if it don't get here till after Christmas  Its not a problem. Let me know how you wanna get paid when ever your ready.

[SuberAvid 617]

Hey Bucky, Good to see your new baby!  I remember when that plane was first built; it was at Birchwood Airport and then was for sale not too long after,  I didn't see it for a long time after it was sold until I first started taking my original Avid up to Anderson/Clear to hunt and there is was. Every time I was flying out of there to hunt over the years It was sitting there but never appeared to be flown and the tires were more and more flat.  Glad to see it went to a good home.  It is already looking much happier!

[Buckchop 479]

Yea Jim bought it long ago from Joe in Wasilla with his wood cutting money from clearing his land and runway, he lives out on the Rex Trail now about 25yrs, hell of a nice guy and now a good friend, last time he flew it to Nenanna, and back to Anderson he got shookup in the plane on landin and decided was time to sell it. Then it got STOLEN from airport in Anderson by a Ak St Trooper, then was found by FAA as the thief tried to reg the plane with fake paperwork he made up and multiple bill of sale paperwork. BAD MOVE HUH? So Jim got it back and a yr later he put it up for sale, ive been droolin over it for two yrs or more there in Anderson even tho i was told it had a VW motor supposed to b blowup, then was told it had a 0200 Cont, ends up it has a 0235 Lycomin, SCORE!! So a buddy of mine lives there called me and told me was for sale for $27g and i sent my helpers home at the mine at lunch that day, loaded a 4 wheeler up and went to Anderson to chat with owner and made a deal with him on plane 3days later and she came home. 
 

Original builder (Scott) didn't want to sell it but he took a job in Anch at Alyeska Pipeline Serv (he is about to retire from there) and couldn't handle flying in Anch, and the drive to Wasilla to fly wasn't workin either he said so had to let her go. Nice guy also and a good friend now talked with him a few times and he has all the build pic and said next time im there we can BS more and i can make copies of the build pic.  Ive made friends with everyone thats “legally” owned the plane love their history 

[SuberAvid 617]

Wow, what a crazy thing.  Would never have thought an AK trooper would do such a thing!  Glad you got it, at a good price too.  The 0235 Lycoming should be great in it.  It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Grove gear.  I think it is well liked by many but I don't know how it works for really rough ground.  The real tires you put on it will make a big difference though!