Kitfox 2 project start

[dholly 718]

 Craig!

Doesn't look like very extensive damage, let alone 'totaled'. Seems like someone just decided to walk away from the repairs and deregister for liability purposes. Good for you. If you stretch it, beef it up, recover/paint it, maybe make new wide main gear and throw an Apex up front you should meet the 51% I would guess. You have some good guys on the forum out your way who will be happy to help (and spend your money). Have fun!

[Craig kennedy 1]

 Craig!

Doesn't look like very extensive damage, let alone 'totaled'. Seems like someone just decided to walk away from the repairs and deregister for liability purposes. Good for you. If you stretch it, beef it up, recover/paint it, maybe make new wide main gear and throw an Apex up front you should meet the 51% I would guess. You have some good guys on the forum out your way who will be happy to help (and spend your money). Have fun!

thank you! Yes, I’ve been looking at that Apex. Looks pretty good!

[dholly 718]

You would have a rocketship. 

[Craig kennedy 1]

You would have a rocketship. 

Great takeoff and landing performance but still slow cruise unless I reduce the under camber of the wings, right? 

[dholly 718]

Yes, but then you weren't planning on going fast in your KF were you? The KF 1-3 ribs, like the Avid HH and S.T.O.L. ribs seem to hit the aerodynamic wall around 85-90 depending on hp. Slightly different but very similar rib profiles. Now, if you want the best all-around performance, the Kitfox 4-7 rib profile is tough to beat. But it requires other changes, i.e. flaperons and control mixer, lift struts etc. so it's not a quick and EZ bolt on upgrade. Fly what you got, build and bolt on new wings a few years down the road maybe...

[Craig kennedy 1]

To the FAA, this is a dead aircraft. It no longer exist as far as they are concerned. The N number has been reassigned to another aircraft.

thank you, I will register for a new N number and prepare for the uphill battle getting airworthiness and builders cert.  i’m extremely new to all of this so I’m sure I will have many more questions for the forum. Thanks 

Hey Craig I saw your youtube comment on my video the other day, that's cool that you're close by. I worked quite a bit with the Spokane FSDO on my airworthiness cert. so reach out if you need any help or questions in working with them.

yeah, cool videos. Once this pandemic is ended I would love to see your airplane. We spent quite a bit of time in Wenatchee.  Thanks for the help.

[Craig kennedy 1]

Yes, but then you weren't planning on going fast in your KF were you? The KF 1-3 ribs, like the Avid HH and S.T.O.L. ribs seem to hit the aerodynamic wall around 85-90 depending on hp. Slightly different but very similar rib profiles. Now, if you want the best all-around performance, the Kitfox 4-7 rib profile is tough to beat. But it requires other changes, i.e. flaperons and control mixer, lift struts etc. so it's not a quick and EZ bolt on upgrade. Fly what you got, build and bolt on new wings a few years down the road maybe...

Don’t need speed. The slower on landing, the better on this one. I’m really looking for slow and low with short takeoff and landing. I think the early model would fit the bill for me! 

[FireFoxIV 58]

Did you pick this up from Stillwater OK?

[Craig kennedy 1]

Did you pick this up from Stillwater OK?

No, Colorado City, TX about 2 months ago.  Not sure where he picked it up from though.

[FireFoxIV 58]

The N number is 121DC. I looked at that airplane back in May 2019 when it was in OK. It has a different prop on it now, but I'm pretty sure it's the same airplane. The guy that had it, when I looked at it, said it was de-registered 2 owners before him for "liability" reasons.  It's a nice airplane, engine sure ran nice, I hope you got it for a good price, he wanted 13k when I was looking at it. 

Edited 21 May 2020 by FireFoxIV

[Craig kennedy 1]

Well, been a while but building motivation to revive this old fox.  I have stripped the wing fabric off and the fuselage, straightened the few slightly bent tubes, I was pleasantly surprised how little damage there was.  The paint of the tubing looked in pretty good shape with exception of a little rust near the tail. wheel.  Paint adhesion seemed very good except for a few areas near the turtle deck.  When fabric was removed it appeared to lift small areas of paint down to bear metal. I have a couple questions.  One, can I spot repair these areas?  and Next, I have not found much info on painting the tubes.  Is the epoxy the prime coat and top coat?  Or do you final coat with something else for UV protection?

I am also interested in hearing opinions on the "must improves" since the fabric is off. I'm thinking enlarging tail surfaces, beefing up spar carry through tube, wing fuel tanks, reinforcing at landing gear attachment, possibly trim tabs?  Let me know things that are "should really do's"!

Thanks for all your help and sorry this process is taking so long.  I had to debate a bit about doing this one as "built from parts" to get new airworthy.

[1avidflyer 2003]

Hi Craig.  welcome to the group.  I sandblasted my Kitfox 4 and Avid MK IV both down to bare metal and repainted them with epoxy primer.  Lots of work for sure.  One thing I also did on the last 3 planes is widen the fuselage as well as add some support above the landing gear and door frame.  With the Kitfox I went 4" wider, on the Avid I went 3" over size for width.  It makes it a lot more comfortable when flying with two in the plane for sure, and I don't think you loose any speed because of it.   JImChuk

[Craig kennedy 1]

Okay, cool! Thanks Jim. I was thinking about that too (the widening).  I saw that on one of your other posts.  So the epoxy primer is the only coating, no other top coat? Thanks, Craig

[Craig kennedy 1]

Hi Craig.  welcome to the group.  I sandblasted my Kitfox 4 and Avid MK IV both down to bare metal and repainted them with epoxy primer.  Lots of work for sure.  One thing I also did on the last 3 planes is widen the fuselage as well as add some support above the landing gear and door frame.  With the Kitfox I went 4" wider, on the Avid I went 3" over size for width.  It makes it a lot more comfortable when flying with two in the plane for sure, and I don't think you loose any speed because of it.   JImChuk

Okay, cool! Thanks Jim. I was thinking about that too (the widening).  I saw that on one of your other posts.  So the epoxy primer is the only coating, no other top coat? Thanks, Craig

[Craig kennedy 1]

What diameter and wall thickness should be used for the front spar carry through tube?  I saw TJay do a pretty nice job but wasn't sure what he used.  What do the current models use? 

[1avidflyer 2003]

I really don't remember if I used a top coat on top of the epoxy primer or not.  One could do a search for info on the web of what is recommended.  Probably TJay will say what he used.  He follows this site fairly well.  I think my Kitfox 4 is 1".   It has also been suggested to add a strap to the bottom liftstrut carry through tube to add some strength to it.  

[TJay 1042]

cool project I think I used .058 can't remember anymore I just know I set all of it up like the model 4 1200

[Craig kennedy 1]

it's been a long time since I've done work on it, but I started to widen the fuselage. I think at a minumum, I wanted to do that, reinforce the frame for the landing gear, and enlarge the rudder and elevator.  I'm exited about re-diong the 2 with it's light weight and high lift wings but it sure is hard to find many support videos on these older models. This will be interesting and a struggle for me I'm sure but I'm going to go for it and hopefully build some momentum and hopefully get it legal and flying! I'm still scrathing my head about baggage area ideas and a little side access door.  

 

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Not an older model, it's the "classic" model. All Model 1. 2 and 3's are classic's along with the Avid series.

[Craig kennedy 1]

Not an older model, it's the "classic" model. All Model 1. 2 and 3's are classic's along with the Avid series.

Yes, sorry, you're right. The classic models.  Thanks Allen!

it's been a long time since I've done work on it, but I started to widen the fuselage. I think at a minumum, I wanted to do that, reinforce the frame for the landing gear, and enlarge the rudder and elevator.  I'm exited about re-diong the 2 with it's light weight and high lift wings but it sure is hard to find many support videos on these older models. This will be interesting and a struggle for me I'm sure but I'm going to go for it and hopefully build some momentum and hopefully get it legal and flying! I'm still scrathing my head about baggage area ideas and a little side access door.  

 

[1avidflyer 2003]

If you use a bungee or cabane style landing gear, it's a good idea to infill the seat truss to the extent possible.  The bungee gear pulls down on the center of the seat truss, the cabane style pushes in on the bottom of the seat truss.   I think I have somewhat beaten that by connecting the seat truss to the cabane on my Avid.  On my cabane, there is an additional tube that runs across at the top of the cabane to help keep it from buckling in  If that tube hadn't been there, I would have run the strap  right up to the seat truss.   As far as the baggage compartment, Avid MK IV has a door on the left side to access the baggage compartment which is just under the back of the turtle deck.  

Edited 13 Feb 2023 by 1avidflyer

[Craig kennedy 1]

Thanks, yes, I plan to reiforce the seat truss along with the two sides with the perforated chromoly plate welded in.

[Craig kennedy 1]

If you use a bungee or cabane style landing gear, it's a good idea to infill the seat truss to the extent possible.  The bungee gear pulls down on the center of the seat truss, the cabane style pushes in on the bottom of the seat truss.   I think I have somewhat beaten that by connecting the seat truss to the cabane on my Avid.  On my cabane, there is an additional tube that runs across at the top of the cabane to help keep it from buckling in  If that tube hadn't been there, I would have run the strap  right up to the seat truss.   As far as the baggage compartment, Avid MK IV has a door on the left side to access the baggage compartment which is just under the back of the turtle deck.  

Thanks for the photos, I didn't see those when I replied last.