Landing in snow

[LSaupe 123]

Had my first snow landing yesterday. Having a difficult time gauging height above the ground at landing (which I heard is not uncommon).  Luckily I had trees nearby on the side of the runway so used that as a guide.  On an open lake, what do you do?  Any words of wisdom in this regard?

[1avidflyer 1983]

I always try to land near the shore so I can use the brush for a height gauge.  It is real hard to see how high you are on an overcast day with unbroken snow some times.  Jim Chuk

[marksires 484]

I'll never land in snow, but in those conditions I'd treat it like a glassy water landing on floats.

Mark

[1avidflyer 1983]

I've never landed on glassy water, (frozen water lots of times) but I've heard that it's hard to judge height there as well.  What is your technique for landing on glassy water Mark?

[Av8r3400 1179]

Practice, practice. 

[EDMO 1078]

One guy in Alaska told me that he drops a bowling ball on a frozen lake - If the ball bounces, then he lands and picks it up!

EDMO

[marksires 484]

I've never landed on glassy water, (frozen water lots of times) but I've heard that it's hard to judge height there as well.  What is your technique for landing on glassy water Mark?

It's a  standard technique Ed.  You pick a point of last reference on the shore - a tree, bush, or something you can use to judge the height.  You pass over that point about 10' over it, in landing attitude, power, descent rate, etc., then you just hold that attitude until the floats touch the water.  I thought they were great, but I did cheat.  There were two screws, one on each side of the instrument panel, on the J3 I did my training in.  In the correct attitude, those screws were lined up right with the horizon, so I'd set them on the horizon, set the power for 60mph, and then just hold it.  The only problem I had was getting close enough to the that final point of reference - I liked to be too high.

Mark

 

[EDMO 1078]

I've never landed on glassy water, (frozen water lots of times) but I've heard that it's hard to judge height there as well.  What is your technique for landing on glassy water Mark?

It's a  standard technique Ed.  You pick a point of last reference on the shore - a tree, bush, or something you can use to judge the height.  You pass over that point about 10' over it, in landing attitude, power, descent rate, etc., then you just hold that attitude until the floats touch the water.  I thought they were great, but I did cheat.  There were two screws, one on each side of the instrument panel, on the J3 I did my training in.  In the correct attitude, those screws were lined up right with the horizon, so I'd set them on the horizon, set the power for 60mph, and then just hold it.  The only problem I had was getting close enough to the that final point of reference - I liked to be too high.

Mark

 

That was not Ed - that was Jim Chuk.  Ed don't swim and wont even fly over water, frozen or not, if he has a choice!  No ice thick enough to land on here In Missouri, and not enough snow to put skis on either.

EDMO

Edited 8 Jan 2016 by EDMO

[marksires 484]

Sorry Ed!  Or maybe sorry Jim!

Mark

 

[Bandit 286]

Had my first snow landing yesterday. Having a difficult time gauging height above the ground at landing (which I heard is not uncommon).  Luckily I had trees nearby on the side of the runway so used that as a guide.  On an open lake, what do you do?  Any words of wisdom in this regard?

Landing on snow during sunny conditions is no problem. Bright sunny days the sun will cast shadows on the drifts so that will give you some depth perception Of where the snow will be. Cloudy days are a whole different situation. If you have full snow coverage and gray overcast use extreme caution. In these conditions you cannot tell the difference between the horizon or the snow.  Try to land as close to a reference point as you can, reeds, sboreline, fenceline ect. Concentrate on the object that is visible and try to land off to the side of it. With a long final carry power  to ground effect while watching your reference point. Keep the power on until you slowly settle onto the snow. If you have no recefences I have thrown my coat out the door. If you are taking off of a area you will be returning to I like to taxi up and down the landing area a couple of times doing s turns before I takeoff. This sometimes helps find points to concentrate on.

Had my first snow landing yesterday. Having a difficult time gauging height above the ground at landing (which I heard is not uncommon).  Luckily I had trees nearby on the side of the runway so used that as a guide.  On an open lake, what do you do?  Any words of wisdom in this regard?

 

Had my first snow landing yesterday. Having a difficult time gauging height above the ground at landing (which I heard is not uncommon).  Luckily I had trees nearby on the side of the runway so used that as a guide.  On an open lake, what do you do?  Any words of wisdom in this regard?

n sunny days it is no problem judging where the snow is

Edited 9 Jan 2016 by Bandit

[LSaupe 123]

Fabulous feedback all.  Thanks for posting.

[EDMO 1078]

My yard turned white for about an hour today, then it turned back to green.  I think we sent it to Doug - he likes snow!

EDMO

[akflyer 1427]

I carry a few pair of safety glasses in the plane.  Some days the rose colored work best, some days blue, some days yellow.  When you in flat light its very tough to tell any surface features.  Old timer trick was to bring some spruce bows with you and fly over the landing site and toss them out the window.  This gives great reference markers.

If the light is that flat that you cant tell where you are above the ground then its also flat enough to hide pressure ridges and 2' high wind drifts.. I can tell you that both of those will ruin your day.  If you can't see the snow features don't land unless its and emergency. 

[SuberAvid 617]

On one trip Leni and I did we were looking for the landing area at finger lake lodge but there were about 2' drifts all over the lake.  we finally spotted the landing area tucked against the trees on one section of the lake away from the lodge (not where you would have expected it to be).  It's a good thing we had good enough light to see the drifts because they were hard as concrete.

Edited 18 Jan 2016 by SuberAvid

[akflyer 1427]

On one trip Leni and I did we were looking for the landing area at finger lake lodge but there were about 2' drifts all over the lake.  we finally spotted the landing area tucked against the trees on one section of the lake away from the lodge (not where you would have expected it to be).  It's a good thing we had good enough light to see the drifts because they were hard as concrete.

was that at rainy pass lodge?  That was during my engine overheat and puke anti freeze days so I was a little distracted on that one take off from there when the temp shot way up for a few seconds.

[akflyer 1427]

My brother landed his old kitfox on Caribou lake with my old full lotus floats on it (they make awesome ski's).  Just after touch down he was violently launched back in the air.  he went around and headed for home.  When he got there he found a few fuse tubes buckled and a float strut about shoved up his butt.  I took the snogo out there and saw the ridge he hit..... I asked him how the hell he hit that and he said the light was flat and he didn't see it... I asked if there was an engine problem (no)  were you about to piss yourself (no)  you couldn't see where you were landing yet you did it anyway for no reason??? (yes)  I then did my best jeff dunham / walter impersonation... dumbass.  I am pretty certain the state trooper he had in the plane with him that day was not very impressed either

 

 

[Bandit 286]

This is the difference between landing on sunny days versus cloudy days. These two pictures are the same field.

Edited 23 Jan 2016 by Bandit

[tcj 150]

That is a good illustration of flat light on snow Bandit.  I have hit a few very large drifts...like 6 to 10 feet high drifts...couldn't see on my Ski Doo.  It is very startling.

[akflyer 1427]

GREAT illustration!  That shows how the snow disappears, but at least you still have tufts of grass to show you where the surface is.... you just cant see what a landing gear and airplane killer those snow drifts are!  Great pics Mr!

 

 

 

[LSaupe 123]

Great illustration, thanks!

 

Luckily on this end we now have a mix of ice and turf.  No doubt that will change soon though.