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John,

Are those 1220 or 1260 floats?  Thats a good price on them with the skystar rigging!

Hello All,

Found this site while trying to do some research on the Avids and Kitfoxes. I plan on being an owner of one before the year is out.  IF the budget buy pops up  A Pre Thanks for the wealth of information because I am browsing and learning by the minute. 

I do have a quick question that I'm sure has been answered but I have not found yet.

Which AC will I need so that TWO 6'1" 190lb dudes fit in??  I understand it will be tight but need for this fit to work until I can get certified and proficient.  Then it will be mainly myself ,small wife and young daughters buzzing around in.

From Florence South Carolina so if anyone fairly close has anything I could possibly sit in and try on would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!!

That's good to know about the Phillips.  I checked prices on oils and found that the damn oil can cost nearly as much as the gas it's mixed with.  There's something called Texas Tea on Amazon that goes for $99 for five gallons but they are sold out.  Has anyone used this stuff?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006EQX2CM/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=tl0d64-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B006EQX2CM&adid=1RR8QMA3S38XSE50777P&&ref-refURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.texastealubes.com%2FProducts_O5D4.html

How much do you estimate the full weight at?  Along with continuous power?

I started this thread since I convinced myself that I need more take-off power than my 582 with a 2.62 gearbox and IFA IVO prop offer for my model 2.

IVO said a 3.47 gearbox with their 3 blade medium prop would make a big difference in take-off and climb.

I called a Rotax repair shop here in Oregon to see if they knew of any used 912's for sale not realizing they were also a Hirth dealer.

Are Hirth engines the latest and greatest that I have somehow not been exposed to?

I still want a 912 but it makes little financial sense to repower this Kitfox, versus finding a Model 4 with a 912S already installed.

Any advice?

Thanks Herman

No doubt the prop makes a huge difference, ask me how I know.

I emailed Rotax Rick again just to ask another question, why limit the 670 power to 89 when from the factory it makes 120+.  He had a good answer.  When he emails it doesn't always make sense and I have to ask him for clarification.   Not sure if it's a language barrier or typing really fast but here is what he sent me last night after I posed the question "why limit the power so much".  If it doesn't make alot of sense let me know.

Here's a question I know Joey could answer but he's out of country right now so I don't know how often he can get to the forum.  Perhaps there are others that have eschewed the injector and gone to the much safer pre-mix plan. 

 

I suppose I should say up front that I maybe should be kicked off the forum because I went and bought an unfinished Z plane 701.  I just think the folks here are going to be much smarter about 2 stroke operation than anyone else. 

 

Here's the deal:  I'm thinking of the Simonini Victor 2 Plus for my kit.  It requires pre-mix;  there is no oil injection system.  I figure I can get a couple of gas totes to make my pre-mix while home with no problem but how do you mix when you are away?  Is it safe to pour a quart in the tank and then add gas or do you add gas then pour in the oil?  Do you run the risk of having pure gas get into the fuel lines where it can't be properly lubricated doing it that way?  Am I over analyzing this?  

 

Rotax Rick also recommends pre-mix for his 670 model so I suspect there might be good reason to do it.  

 

Anyone with experience here would be welcomed to comment.  

 

Dan

I add penzoil 2-stroke air cooled oil to a 5 gallon gas tank, then add the gas.  I do not buy my fuel at the airport, we do not have MOGAS and I cannot afford 100LL so I take it 5 Gallons at a time.  In the Rotax manual it tells you 50:1, Rotax Rick and a few other engine builders recommend 40:1.

I recently removed my oil injection after recording what it was flowing in flight and it was only flowing 70:1 to 100:1 at WOT, the previous owner had the same results so we decided that it would be best to remove it.

Don't let premixed fuel sit for too long, the octane rating plummets when the oil is added and the longer it sits the worse it gets.

A local Rotax 2-stroke repairman who has a 582 powered AirCam (twin engine experimental) swears by Phillips 66 2-stroke oil at 45:1 ratio and 1 ounce of Marvel Mystery Oil for every 5 gallons.  He told me he has had over 1200 hours on his Rotax's using this method with only regular decarbonizing. 

Just shows how different peoples opinions vary

Thanks for the info Leni.  There was a guy on BCP that built his 701 with the Victor 2 and he absolutely could not give a higher recommendation.  HE considered it that good. Sadly he's passed away a couple of weeks ago.  Fellow by the name of Lynn Sanderson.  Known on the forums by the handle  "Dirtstrip"  Hid opinion is what got me to thinking of one.  Unfortunately neither the US distributor nor the Canadian are reachable by their web-site phone numbers and they don't reply to e-mail either.  NOT a good recommendation!!  

Premix is pretty much a non event.  If you have a flue flow meter etc, you have a pretty damn good idea of how much gas your gonna take to fill it up.  Keep your ratio rite cup in the plane.  When I am premixing for my boat, I go in 12 gallon increments.  I know I gotta dump in a quart for every 12 gallons and I know pretty damn close how much gas I will take for each fill up.  I will dump it in slowly while running the pump nozzle with the other hand.  or you can dump in some oil first, then put the gas in and grab the wing tip and shake the hell out of it a few times. 

 

The other option is to mix it 5 gallons at a time and then dump the 5 gallon can into the wing.  That is a bit anal if you ask me, but some get a warm fuzzy out of it.

 

I looked at the V2 and it intrigued me, but I have not heard of enough flying around over here to make me want to run out and buy one.

 

I made a few trips in the last week or so. An older brother had purchased a 9.3mm CZ that he had yet to fire, so we went out the day before Memorial Day to the Knik Glacier/Lake George area to put a few rounds through it. Holy smokes, was that place busy! Just about every strip had at least one airplane on it, and the radio was quite busy. We ended up landing at a strip a little ways upstream from the upper gorge, and fired towards the mountains. Coming back into Merrill Field was crazy, as it was hard to get a word in edgewise with as much traffic as there was. Overall, a beautiful day. I swear that the leaves were noticeably greener on the return trip.

The following Thursday I got up early and headed up the west side of the Susitna valley. I wasn't able to leave as early as I wanted, and settled for a 6:15 departure from Merrill. No clouds at all and just a slight breeze.

 A few miles from the Eightmile airstrip, closer towards the mountains, I spied what looked like an overgrown airstrip. There was an old caved-in cabin on one side. I made an approach, but the strip was too narrow for my wings and a tree was lying across the middle. Oh well. I continued on up to the Skwentna, just buzzing around, and found a place to get out and stretch my legs before heading back home.

-Nate

The cheeks are open and the lip is factory, there is an excessive amount of flow at this time through the cowling.

Well, I can deliver them to Palmer for expenses!

That would depend on the oil you are using... The oil I run, its 50:1.  The oil injecton gives you ~ 50:1 at WOT and closer to 70:1 at an idle. 

Cant you get some welding done to make the rear of the doorframe stick out wider?

Structurally, that would be a lot stronger. Then just cover it with fabric.

Check out my Foxy Flapper Fotos in the Kitfox IV section, I think - you can see I used the same size tubing as the original, but it makes it 3 inches wider on each side, and a lot stronger.

You have to re-bend the rear of the doors to fit.

You can use aluminum, steel, or wood for the stringers - just brace them with standoffs and hysol.

ED in MO

So Leni are you recommending a 50:1 mixture?  That would be 16 ounces per 6 gallons.

you can look around and see what they are going for on Barnstormers etc.  I think you would be hard pressed to get much, if any over 20 on it.

Premix is pretty much a non event.  If you have a flue flow meter etc, you have a pretty damn good idea of how much gas your gonna take to fill it up.  Keep your ratio rite cup in the plane.  When I am premixing for my boat, I go in 12 gallon increments.  I know I gotta dump in a quart for every 12 gallons and I know pretty damn close how much gas I will take for each fill up.  I will dump it in slowly while running the pump nozzle with the other hand.  or you can dump in some oil first, then put the gas in and grab the wing tip and shake the hell out of it a few times. 

The other option is to mix it 5 gallons at a time and then dump the 5 gallon can into the wing.  That is a bit anal if you ask me, but some get a warm fuzzy out of it.

I looked at the V2 and it intrigued me, but I have not heard of enough flying around over here to make me want to run out and buy one.

Right on!  Lokks like a great place to hang some deer from!  Where is the meat pole's   That shed needs to be a bit bigger so we can stuff the planes in there when the winds come up

See you next week Mr! I should be getting into Kenai just in time for Beer 30 on Tuesday.

I started this thread since I convinced myself that I need more take-off power than my 582 with a 2.62 gearbox and IFA IVO prop offer for my model 2.

IVO said a 3.47 gearbox with their 3 blade medium prop would make a big difference in take-off and climb.

I called a Rotax repair shop here in Oregon to see if they knew of any used 912's for sale not realizing they were also a Hirth dealer.

Are Hirth engines the latest and greatest that I have somehow not been exposed to?

I still want a 912 but it makes little financial sense to repower this Kitfox, versus finding a Model 4 with a 912S already installed.

Any advice?

Thanks Herman

There are a few guys that have put the Hirth engines in KF / Avids, but I have damn sure not heard any raving about them other than from the dealer about them being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

When looking at older 912 engines, MAKE DARN GOOD AND SURE you look at the service records as there are a ton of "service" bulletins on them, some mandantory, some not, that could make your "awesome deal" on a 912 or a 912 powered plane turn into a money pit REAL quick.  Some are cheap and easy, others are thousands of bucks to comply... Of course, as an experimental, you dont have to comply, but how much of a warm and fuzzy do you get to have when your flying over hostile terrain knowing that you engine probably (or could have) a KNOWN issue.

I am not knocking the 912 (settle down Larry   ) just making you aware of some potential issues that you could be faced with.  If I could go out and buy a 912 today I would be bolting one on... But if I am gonna spend that kind of money, I will just rebuild my Pacer right now..

Just for my information, what do you think my plane is worth.  I have a 1988 kit completed in 2013.  Certificate of airworthiness, original fiberglass and gelcoat floats, skis, wide gear with 21" tires, Garmin 296, mgl avionics instruments. Also have the original factory cargo pod.  It has the HH struts and mark IV cowl.  Rotax 582 with 58 total hours.  The plane and motor have a total time of 58 hrs.

Thanks for your input.

Here's a question I know Joey could answer but he's out of country right now so I don't know how often he can get to the forum.  Perhaps there are others that have eschewed the injector and gone to the much safer pre-mix plan. 

I suppose I should say up front that I maybe should be kicked off the forum because I went and bought an unfinished Z plane 701.  I just think the folks here are going to be much smarter about 2 stroke operation than anyone else. 

Here's the deal:  I'm thinking of the Simonini Victor 2 Plus for my kit.  It requires pre-mix;  there is no oil injection system.  I figure I can get a couple of gas totes to make my pre-mix while home with no problem but how do you mix when you are away?  Is it safe to pour a quart in the tank and then add gas or do you add gas then pour in the oil?  Do you run the risk of having pure gas get into the fuel lines where it can't be properly lubricated doing it that way?  Am I over analyzing this?  

Rotax Rick also recommends pre-mix for his 670 model so I suspect there might be good reason to do it.  

Anyone with experience here would be welcomed to comment.  

Dan

Thanks guys

Leni..Don't know about weather here. Have been on Kodiak isle building  on shed.

There are 2 Kitfox 4s on ebay right now with 912 engines for sale. Jim Chuk

So I'm planning to have my 2nd wing complete through the brush coats of eko fill by this weekend and  ready for spray coats so I'm preparing to get back to work on the fuselage. I've decided to remove the stringers and redo it with the wide body modification. My question is what type of tubing should I use for the stringers? I'm thinking 1/2" aluminum, but how thick and does it matter what type of aluminum I use? what would be best? Not sure what the KF's have. next I was thinking about just putting a small piece of tubing to hold the stringer off the front of the airframe aprox 2" then just blend it back in to the airframe with tubing rather than bending sheet metal like most of the modifications are done. I'm not sure that I can bend matching pieces of sheet metal with my equipment and I would hate to have one side be different from the other. what are you guys' thoughts on this? anyone know how much it costs to just have the pieces made, I think Murel Williams does it. may need to give him a call. has anyone here done this modification before... pics just want to have all my ducks in a row so it will be done right. also I was thinking about using Hysol for this modification rather than welding partly due to using aluminum on steel of course.

-Robert-

Happy Birthday Bob!  I hope you got to go flying for a bit, but I heard the weather has been kinds crappy the last few days..

:bday:
 

I started this thread since I convinced myself that I need more take-off power than my 582 with a 2.62 gearbox and IFA IVO prop offer for my model 2.

IVO said a 3.47 gearbox with their 3 blade medium prop would make a big difference in take-off and climb.

I called a Rotax repair shop here in Oregon to see if they knew of any used 912's for sale not realizing they were also a Hirth dealer.

Are Hirth engines the latest and greatest that I have somehow not been exposed to?

I still want a 912 but it makes little financial sense to repower this Kitfox, versus finding a Model 4 with a 912S already installed.

Any advice?

Thanks Herman

I don't know.  I was told a seized rave valve caused the last engine out that it had.