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ChrisBolkan added a post in a topic Just joined the Fat Avid Club 15 Jan 2013

Well, After a ton of looking, pondering, measuring and ciphering, I ordered cables. I can't remember the exact part numbers but will post the part numbers if they work right. I ended up going with CableCraft. I chose the Low Friction cable. It's one of the choices you can make based upon application. The cables I ordered have a 60 LB compression or column working rating in a 4 inch throw which is what I ended up going with. This compression or push rating seems to be about twice that of competitors like Teleflex. It looks like a 4 inch throw will work correctly with all of the original bracketry welded on by Airdaile or whoever made this particular fuselage. Cables should be here tomorrow and I will report back with photos and exact part numbers if it all works out. Here's hoping!......

Chris

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EDMO added a post in a topic Question about topics 15 Jan 2013

I love the communication on these puters - but they make me feel dumb, old, outdated, dinosauerish, etc.
If I turn it on and it dont work, then I start hollaring for the "experts"!
ED in MO

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ChrisBolkan added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 15 Jan 2013

My system has no fuel pump. All gravity flow. I have never measured the pressure, but when sumping the gascolator, I can tell intuitively that there is PLENTY of flow. The gascolator (and carb) are WAY lower than the tanks on the Magnum (Lycoming engine with bottom mounted carb) so there is a LOT of head. As for the screen size in the gascolator, it may look like a large mesh, but the mesh is designed to be enough smaller than any restrictions or jets in the carb, so anything that does make it through the mesh will flow uneventfully through the carb. Plus the gsscolators collect everything anyway. The gascolator screen is just a last defence. It's how certificated planes do it, and IMHO there is no need to re-invent that wheel. When you try and "improve" on things that have been figured out over many years with good reason already, you get the shit that happened to me because the builder thought he had a better mousetrap. This is something I NEVER want to experience again. If you know the terrain up there, there is simply no place to land. I was lucky. Just plain lucky. No two ways about it. If that little grass strip hadn't been right there, I mean right there at that moment, it would have been water or trees.

Chris

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JustNorm added a topic in Jokes 15 Jan 2013

Ex Wife

The Ex-wife

Tim decided to tie the knot with his long time girlfriend.
One evening, after the honeymoon,
he was assembling some loads for an upcoming hunt.

His wife was standing there at the bench watching him.
After a long period of silence she finally speaks.

Honey, I've been thinking, now that we are married I think
it's time you quit hunting, shooting, hand loading, and fishing.
Maybe you should sell your guns, boat & airplane.

Tim gets this horrified look on his face.

She says, "Darling, what's wrong?"

"There for a minute you were sounding like my ex-wife."

"Ex wife!", she screams, "I didn't know you were married before!"

"I wasn't "

1 reply
1,160 views

ChrisBolkan added a post in a topic Question about topics 15 Jan 2013

I saw the general section below the topics, but it has always only had 3 topics every time I looked at it. Then after I made this post I entered some stuff in the search topics by date windows and everything popped up. Maybe it was just stuck in my computer or something. Now I see tons of topics in there that I did not know existed! So all is well.

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EDMO added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 15 Jan 2013

Thanks Ron,
I have been trying to get the specifics for the Kitfox/Avid head pressure because they may be different than the Starduster and others. Suberavid has a pressure gage on his, and I am installing one on mine. My dual Facet electric fuel pumps will have an internal bypass so that if they quit I should still have head pressure flow, but that may not be enough for any extra power. Testing will tell someday.
Thanks, Ed

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RDavidson added a topic in Avid Flyer General Hangar 14 Jan 2013

Calling Brett at Airdale...

Guys,

I tried to call Brett at Airdale today, but the line rings several times and then says to call back later. I tried several times through out the day with no success.
Is this normal?
Is there a better way to contact him?
I was using the number on Airdale.com

Thanks,
Ron

10 replies
1,847 views

RDavidson added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

Ed,

This is all on a Starduster Too Experimental. I have a Lycoming O-320 with an MS4 carb.
My mechanical fuel pump went out on my O-320 and the only reason I knew was that I was reading about 1.5 psi on my fuel pressure gauge. I couldn't tell you when the pump went out, because the engine ran just fine. I usually see 3-4 psi on the gauge and rarely look at it (except on cross country flights). That being said, you can have problems with the engine quitting in climb or extreme angles, when your fuel pump is not working. You probably know that already...

Ron

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EDMO added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

Ron / Chris / anyone,
Have you ever measured your fuel pressure from the tank to the carb, with no fuel pump running?
Suberavid and I were talking about this a while back, since both of us are running Soobs with two fuel pumps, and I asked him if his engine would run without a pump running, and he had no tryed that yet.
My carb is a Holley two-barrel, and has a small internal wire filter at the inlet, and takes 2 to 6 lbs of pressure to operate. He has the dual Bings on his Stratus engine.
Another point was brought up by Doug Holly, that the only filters you should have are the screen wire type, since a paper filter will clog easier. I see clearly that the point Chris is making is valid - You have to have head pressure to overcome resistance to flow.
ED in MO

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EDMO added a post in a topic Question about topics 14 Jan 2013

Chris,
I read your last post on this, but forgot to check the time posted - If you didnt find the post, then You have to scroll down past all the avid models and posts and get to a second section of the Avid General Hanger to find it.
Now you know as much as I know about this site!
I sent letter and photos and talked on phone to Wade about nose gear.
Thanks,
ED in MO

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RDavidson added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

Chris!

I'm so glad you posted that story! The previous owner of my Magnum also bought the clear filters to go in the same place! I never thought of the pressure needed to keep the fuel flowing through a filter. It all makes sense now!
I have another aircraft that I did use an in line filter on, but it was in between the gascollator and the mechanical fuel pump. I put it there because I saw some small particles when sumping the gascollator. I didn't want them making it to the carb. Couldn't ever discover exactly what caused that, but guessed that a dirt dobber had deposited some mud in the vent tube of the tank that then made it into the tank and dissolved slowly, making its way through the gascollator screen.

A gascollator screen won't stop everything. At least with my gascollator it is a wide screen.
On that plane I also put a small Facet fuel pump tubed in parallel to the line with the filter, so if the filter clogged you could electrically pump gas through the other line straight to the carb. I plan on doing this with my Magnum too.

Now, on the flushing the tank conversation. I think I'm going to wash it out with Av gas only and then test for leaks. Acetone and MEK just open the door for creating fiberglass issues that I'm going to have a hard time fixing at this point. If I ever go to Ethanol, I will probably look at the acetone option, or a major modification with cutting panels in the bays to get a good sealed tank.

Thanks for all the discussions!
Ron

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RDavidson added a topic in Avid Magnum 14 Jan 2013

Magnums with Airdale Bush Gear

Has anyone installed the Airdale Bush Gear on a Magnum?

Thanks,
Ron

41 replies
7,937 views

ChrisBolkan added a topic in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar 14 Jan 2013

Question about topics

Hi,
I have been involved in a discussion about fuel tank coatings in the Avid Flyer General Hangar. Where is this topic actually located? When I open the Avid Flyer General Hangar folder, there is no such topic. The only way I can access the topic is under the Last Post Info field. I'm stumped as to which sub-folder this topic is located. Still coming up to speed on this site.
Thanks for the help!
Chris Bolkan

5 replies
948 views

ChrisBolkan added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

I have a story (and a lesson learned) about this very topic. I bought my Magnum from the original builder. He had installed these neat little clear glass filters right up where the fuel exits the wings, but before the fuel dumps into the header tanks. The original builder never flew it. I had transferred the 40 hour flyoff to myself and successfully completed it.

At about 80 very successful and uneventful hours on the plane, I decide to take my girlfriend to Port Townsend for a jazz festival for her birthday. We left Tri Cities and had a wonderful flight up and over the Cascades. We went around and under the Class B around Seattle and had just completed the first water crossing betewwn Paine Field and Whidbey Island. One of my GPS waypoints was a little grass airfield on the south end of Whidbey. Just as we passed over that airstrip and switched to Port Townsend on the GPS, the engine stopped. I found that if I pulled the throttle back, the engine would start again and idle, but if I gave it any throttle at all it would just die again. Fortunately (VERY FORTUNATELY) we were directly over this grass airstrip and had plenty of altitude to coast in and land uneventfully.

Once on the ground, I found that the little glass filters had plugged with very fine debris from the tank construction. The debris appeared clear in the gasoline so you could not see it. I had to remove the filters and blow through them to actually verify the restriction. There were something like two hangars on the field and fortunately one of them had a couple EAA'ers who were happy to help. We re-plumbed sans the filters directly into the header tanks as in hindsight was the way it should have been done in the first place since there is a gascolator/screen at the firewall anyway.

Once I got back home, I removed the pipe fittings from the tanks and found a bunch of construction debris that had collected around the finger screen in the tank in addition to the very fine dust which had plugged the filter. I removed all of it with a fine bent wire hook. i never had another problem with fuel restriction once I removed those little glass filters.

The lesson learned or me was NEVER place a filter directly at the tank outlet. Placement of a filter there does not provide any pressure head to push through a restriction. If the filter were located at the output of the header tank instead, there would have been plenty of pressure head (3+ feet) to push right through the slight restriction.

The filters were not badly plugged, just restricted enough that the very low head at the output of the tanks could not produce adequate flow.

The system I eventually ended up with contains no filters at all. The tanks dump directly into the header tanks where debris can settle out and be drained off, then goes to an aviation gascolator with inverted screen at the firewall. That is all there is now without a hint of reduced flow at 450 hours. The system on the Magnum is entirely gravity feed with no pumps in the system and is reliable as can be once those filters at the tank outlets were removed.

I do not think MEK is appropriate to rince tanks with and maybe not acetone either. Both of these chemicals are harder on the fiberglass than ethanol ever dreamed of being.

Chris

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dholly added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

I'm aware of the arguments for each rinse media and their benefits used with poly, vinyl ester or epoxy resins individually and specifically. However, due to the different fiberglass wing tank material compositions and oem manufacturing procedures, I just don't believe that a one size solution fits all. Having owned two Avids and two Kitfoxes equipped with wing tanks, my real life experience seems to be in line with the chatter I see posted on multiple forums. That being, Kitfox tanks tend to suffer primarily from inadequate mold release agent removal and subsequent failure of the factory applied Kreem (or other owner applied tank) sealant, as well as excess adhesive and selvage. Avid tanks tend to suffer from leaking due to polyester resin getting eaten up, as well as excess adhesive.

Not that either tank is exempted from the other affliction of course, but those observations are no surprise to me since Skystar and Kitfox supplied tons of coated tanks while Avid supplied none. Both companies slathered on copious amounts of adhesive to secure the baffles, which can dislodge at any time for any number of reasons, including use of E10 auto gas and it's additives (finger strainers on tank outlets mandatory, IMHO). And it is my understanding that the composition of polyester binding and laminating resin used by each company was different. Unlike the newer vinyl ester or epoxy resins, polyester resin is chemically formulated to reemain tacky after it is hardened which allows additional layups to adhere easier. Perhaps Skystar chose this to facilitate the Kreem slosh? Might have worked better, assuming all the mold release had been cleaned properly.

However, in this case, Ron has stated he's sticking with 100LL. So if any selvage or adhesive bits in his Avid tanks will not be loosened by the use of E10 or, more importantly IMHO, any residual release agent will not be turned into the infamous jet clogging 'brown sticky stuff' by the use of E10, what's the point? Hell, rinse 'em with water if you want, all you're doing is getting rid of whatever loose debris is in there as opposed to preventative medicine for sloshing a tank sealant or E10 use, or trying to capture the fiberglass hairs from a deteriorating tank. I suspect there is a header tank sump or gascolator in his fuel circuit to catch any bits of debris that make it past the finger strainers.

If he rinsed new (post Nov'07) tanks with Avgas, then he did not follow the SB instructions and your recommendation was consistent with SB60. If he had unused pre-Nov'07 tanks and rinsed with MEK [edit: saw your correction] or Acetone, no doubt they puked more crap, this circa tank is clearly most susceptible to that rinse media. I would use Acetone to rinse pre-Nov'07 tanks but not MEK. In any event, based on the factory position stated in the Kitfox Service Bulletin, I think the question in this case is just how necessary or beneficial would an Acetone rinse be when Ron a.) is not going to use E10; b.) is not going to use a sealant to coat his tanks; c.) already has tanks installed in covered wings. I understand the thought process behind Kitfox Service Bulletin, it's up to each which set of instructions is appropriate and fits both their tank material and mission. If I was in the same position as Ron, unless I wiped my finger in the tank and felt a bunch of sticky material indicating the presence of eexcessive mold release agent, I would just use Avgas to rinse any loose debris, reinstall the finger strainers and go fly. Not a recommendation, argument with Larry or endorsement of Kitfox, only my opinion. Ron's and YMMV.

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Av8r3400 added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

First off, let me correct a mistake. It was acetone, NOT MEK that was the rinsing agent. That was my mistake on my last post.

I don't have any idea what, if any, negative effect this would have on the "old" tanks, sorry.

As to pressure testing, only a very low pressure is needed, 1/2 to 1 psi. Put a balloon over the filler neck and pressurize the tank through the threaded ports. Leave the tank/balloon for a while and measure the balloon for shrinkage to detect a leak. Soapy water spray for finding the leaks...

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SuberAvid added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 14 Jan 2013

With the old Avid tanks (new but manufactured prior to 2007) you are suggesting they should still be rinsed with MEK? Will rinsing for 1 min and then dumping and letting them dry not cause permanent damage but still be effective in cleaning out the initial gunk?

How much pressure are you talking about in doing a pressure test?

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SuberAvid added a post in a topic AVID Flyer In Wasilla 14 Jan 2013

Forgot to add the rest of the history of that plane as I know it; Gary bought it from a doctor in seattle and trucked it to AK. The Dr. in Seattle bought it from the builder in FL and trucked it to Seattle from FL. Like I said, travelled a lot of miles without ever leaving the ground. As far as I could see the plane looked fine when Gary had it but has sat for a loong time and needs a thourough going through of the systems tbefore flying. Of course it has a great engine in it.....

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SuberAvid added a post in a topic AVID Flyer In Wasilla 14 Jan 2013

The link to add said $18. I assume that is $18K?

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EDMO added a post in a topic GUNS OF ALASKA 14 Jan 2013

Jim had a few other "interesting" lives - He worked on the pipeline as a crane op - and had blasting license.
I made Harpoon barrels in my machine shop, as subcontract to him, and we flew to Barrow where I fitted them to the Whaling Captains Harpoons - they didnt speak American, so had to have an interpreter - Learned a lot that trip.
Jim was champion pistol shooter - real dead shot! - good inventer - and certainly makes money and has fun.
I have another story about him and a whale and some dinamite in Barrow - but not now -
I miss beng there with him and Ken and gang.
Wish SuberAvid Randy could have seen the show - we were just talking about the guns under the wings, and they had the same settup on an ATV.
Maybe you should give him a call sometime - his website has the phone number.
Ed in MO
I drove thru Wyoming from Crazy Horse Mountain to Little Big Horn in 2007 when going to Alaska to move my shop and planes down to Mo.

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wypaul added a post in a topic GUNS OF ALASKA 14 Jan 2013

Interesting Ed I worked with this guy(Jim West) back in the early 80's here in Wyoming at a rathole drilling outfit.

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Av8r3400 added a post in a topic Fuel Tank Coating 13 Jan 2013

Doug-- The topic of what material to rinse with has been debated to death. Av-Gas will not do it. The release agents and uncured resin are resistant to it. MEK or Acetone are required.

My buddy who just finished his hybrid, used brand new wing tanks from Kitfox and rinced with Av-Gas. I persuaded him to rinse again with MEK and he got out a ton more junk from his "clean" tanks.

Additionally, I would highly recommend pressure testing your new tanks. These tanks above also had a flaw in their manufacture which caused a leak that required a bunch of screwing around to fix.

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EDMO added a post in a topic GUNS OF ALASKA 13 Jan 2013

Check this out tonight, WILD WEST ALASKA, ANIMAL PLANET CHANNEL, Sunday at 7 CST, and I'm sure Jim West will introduce you to some big Alaska critters, and your protection to haul in the plane - He was flying a 175 on floats when I worked for him, and had a Lodge at Copper River.
ED in MO

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EDMO added a post in a topic Kitfox Belly Radiator? 13 Jan 2013

Sorry, I left out Maury County, but havent been there in years.
ED

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EDMO added a post in a topic Finally got me an Action Cam.. Drift HD and a couple vids 13 Jan 2013

I had rather see them with no sound, unless you want to edit in some clear audio that tells where you are, what we are seeing, how the plane acts, etc. If you dont want to talk, i guess some Bluegrass would be better than chainsaw noises, IMO! I always enjoy a video of flying above different parts of the country.
ED in MO

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