HacMan install issues on 582

[thebriman 69]

I installed a Hac Man for my 582 from Green Sky Adventures whilst down for a decarbon.  I am running a #45 idle jet, 11G2 needle, 2.72 needle jet, and a 180 main jet as supplied with the hacman kit.  Clip is in the stock #3 spot on the needle. running full rich on hac knob i am seeing egts at 1175 in cruise at 6000 rpm, 40 deg f and 950 field elevation. Static rpm is 6400. Used to see 6300, Joey had same issue.  Today I will either switch from my 2.72 needle jets to my 2.74s or I will drop the clip to the #4 position on the needle or a combination of the two.  Perhaps too fine on the prop. I'll post the results.  Anyone with a hac on a 582 please chime in... 

Brian

[1avidflyer 1983]

6400 static seems a bit high, I like about 6250.  Still get good climb, and it will give a higher cruise speed.  I've never used a Hac man though.  Jim Chuk

[thebriman 69]

I may repitch to load the engine up and lower the egts before i mess with the jetting.

[akflyer 1427]

At 6000 RPM your well off the needle and fully on the main jet.  What are your EGTs when your around 4800-5200 ?  My in-flight mixture needles says to set the needles at 4000-4200 during run up.  Of course, as I climb higher or temps change during the flight I can dial them in.  6400 static is on the high side.  I set my prop so I can turn 6500 on take off once rolling and maintain that in a normal climb.  Max HP is 6500 and I see a performance loss in climb and take off at prop settings giving me more than 6500 on the roll.  The prop just beats the air but doesn't move much.

 

[C5Engineer 1170]

Put in a degree of pitch first. I'm running on the bottom clip as well and would like to go a tad richer in the midrange circuit but it's manageable enough I've never gotten around to it. The IFA adjustable is amazing for controlling EGTs. I just load it up with pitch during the descent and then bump it back out on final in case I wanna do a stop and go or have to go around. 

Edited 25 Nov 2015 by C5Engineer

[thebriman 69]

Seeing 6300 static now and i like the performance.  see about 6550 WOT straight and level.  still a bit on the high side at wot in climb.  1150 but full rich on the hac.  Id like to be a little richer and be able to lean with hac for a little more room on both sides of the spectrum.  is anyone with a hac man running larger mains than a 180 size?

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Yes I ran up to 200's for mains with my system while figuring things out. The bigger main jet you use, the smaller the reference orifice needs to be to enable you to lean adequately. I ended up limiting the range of adjustment by using a 1/8 inch plastic tubing coupler for my restriction (see diagram in other thread) and experimenting with main jets that gave me cool enough EGT's when full rich. I found that it worked best when I limited total adjustment range.

[thebriman 69]

Did a carb sync and everything came out where it was supposed to.  Prop pitch at 6300 static.  Jetting as follows.  Air screw 1 turn out. Idle jet #45. Needle jet 2.74. Jet needle 11G2, clip on #4 (bottom) position. Main jet 180.  Two turns out from full rich on HAC knob for 1125F EGT in climb at WOT.  1150F EGT in cruise 5900 rpm 2500 MSL , 3.5 turns out on HAC. Air temp was about 65 degrees by the way.  Haven't done any fuel burn testing or climb testing at different altitudes, but I seem to have a good set up for a starting point.  

[Av8r_Sed 82]

I'm running  195 main jets with my Hacman.  Let's me go full rich and throttle back through the mid-range without EGT excursions.

[C5Engineer 1170]

I may need some bigger mains too. Been flying at 45-55 degrees down here at Sea Level and she's running a little leaner than I would like.

[thebriman 69]

i see the same issue joey with mine.  thinking about jumping on the SedWagon and getting 195s like he runs.  that being said in the summer i could probably run the 180s no problem

[C5Engineer 1170]

A 180 to a 195 is a huge jump. I am thinking 185 is plenty for me. 

[thebriman 69]

Whats temps are you seeing joey?

[dav8or 20]

I have a home made system based on Chris's diagrams. I currently have 190's in and it runs leaner than I would like at 6000 in level flight with OAT around 50°. My static is 5900 which I know seems low but allows a little over 6500 rpm in level flight at around 115 mph. I need to experiment a bit more with prop diameter I think. I am about to go up to 200's or maybe 205's to allow me to fly when the ground level (sea level in my case) OAT is near freezing. I still need to work on my mid-range which is a bit richer than I would like.

 

Dan

Avid Model C Speedwing with 582/B Box

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Dan do you have a speed wing? Me thinks so with 115 MPH speed. That may be why you are seeing high EGT's. Less load. Just a thought.

I assume you are seeing these temps with valve completely closed?

Chris

[C5Engineer 1170]

Whats temps are you seeing joey?

I am cheating with the Ivo prop. I can make them pretty much whatever I want. Turning 6400 on takeoff they are running 1175 ish. 6000 on takeoff and they are 1100 but climb suffers a little. Instead of 1200 fpm I only get 7-800 :)

[ChrisBolkan 130]

My favorite combo was an adjustable pitch prop with adjustable mixture. I loved the IVO but no matter what I tried I could never get the motor as reliable as I would like. I ended up very happy with the GSC in flight adjustable prop. I loved that setup and ran it till I sold the plane. I was very fortunate to have purchased both the IVO in-flight and the GSC in-flight at reasonable prices used which enabled me to experience different setups.

I remember having midrange temps that were low and also experimenting some with different needle jet profiles to clean that up. Unfortunately its too long ago to remember exactly what I played with for needle jets. Wish I could be of more help, but when I got behind the Lycoming in the Magnum years ago I started learning about it and now have forgotten a lot of the fine two stroke details.

 

Edited 18 Dec 2015 by Chris Bolkan

[dav8or 20]

Dan do you have a speed wing? Me thinks so with 115 MPH speed. That may be why you are seeing high EGT's. Less load. Just a thought.

I assume you are seeing these temps with valve completely closed?

Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes the high EGT's are with the valve completely closed and it is a speedwing. I do not want to add anymore pitch to the prop since I am already down to 5900 static with climb out at around 6200. It would be great to have an in-flight adjustable but an IVO is definitely not in the budget right now. I plan to experiment with the props I have to see if I can find a happy compromise. Having the leaning system does make it easy to correct a dangerous situation as long as I have large jets in there to fall back on.

 

Dan

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Hi Dan,

Yeah it seems like two strokes don't like airplanes that land slow and fly fast. I think it comes with the territory unless you can vary prop pitch.

Chris

[allonsye 85]

Joey / Brian -

Maybe I missed it in the thread but above and beyond the egt readings, what did your plugs look like?  I'd think that would be the definitive answer of whether your jets are dialed in right or not; yes?

Paul

[C5Engineer 1170]

Plugs on an inverted engine only tell part of the story and you could show a set to 10'different people and get 10 different opinions. In my opinion they only show if you are at one extreme or the other or good to go. 50 degrees aren't going to change the shade of brown much. 

Edited 24 Dec 2015 by C5Engineer