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Dave, your gear, just like the Airdale and Highwing gear have the spring strut linkage making a strait line from the tire to the opposite side longeron. This directs the force from the tire to the opposite side longeron.
If you look at the Rans or Piper gear the link is not a strait line. By breaking the plane of force it splits the force. In this case to both longeron sides.
IMO this is the first design flaw.
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Just thought I would put in my 2 bits. I built a Bush gear for my Mod 1 Kitfox. I used die springs in a housing similar to the bearhawk gear. Designed it to take 3 G's before spring would go solid. I did a very poor landing. The gear held up fine but the fuselage failed. I don't believe the springs went solid because the safety cable cable ties were unbroken. I have considered building new tension members with bungees. I believe an Aluminum Spring Gear or bungees are the more forgiving as they provide the most flex (not including the new Highlander gas strut gear). Here is a link to the drop test video I did on my gear; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvQtKQ5gHVY
Dave
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if a person could incorporate the shocks that are used in a soft tail Harley, they are designed for extraction loads not compression,..at the bottom of the stroke the oil works as a damper versus when you bottom out the spring it's solid,..the solid "Bang" of bottoming out is what instigates the deformation of the tubes, sending a ripple down the shock rod to the axle weldment at the wheel back up the forward gear leg,..take the "Shock or Bang" and add the fulcrum of the wheel center being close to 8 inches outward of the axle weldment junction,..which adds warpage to the forward gear leag like a bow,..bendind inward,..there is allot going on at once and the weakest link will deform and sometimes to the point of failure.
is anyone familiar with Challenger's fiber glass upgrade on the mains? if you could replace the front gear leg with a similar round fiberglass rod,..when the coil spring bottomed out,..this would transfer the "Shock" to the forward gear leg which would then dampen the forces that would be normally put on a tube,..yes it adds weight,..,..but now you have also added flex for when the spring gets compressed completely
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I didn't think that Google would land that many hits without some sort of wierd porn being involved...
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as much as I enjoy my avid I also love this little plane ,so I put it on amphibs
.its not so little anymore1 person likes this -
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my wing spars are .83 and has HH ribs and total wing is 12 ft. and have 10 ribs with 2 false ribs and has alum raps about 12 in. HH wings are supposed to be 14ft. has anyone have any experience with this set up? thanks Randy in tn. also looking for someone close to dyersburg tn with experience with the avid .cell 731 589 1330 email no1son38@aol.com
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I took a close look at the black Highlander at Oshkosh this summer. It looked like to me the fuselage ahead of the verticle fin and the gear attach points had been repaired. The fabric had been patched and the black paint wasn't as glossy. I think those airplanes bend to.
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Manual part3 page 35 I believe shows the part at the length of the Horizontal stabilizer being attatched to the frame with an AN3-4 Bolt
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No you came across with a correct and proper answer, but I was the one who probably was a bit out of line, But 6 months and enough money to have gotten my plane in the air and you think I could get a Biannual done or at least have the instructor at the community college stay awake while I am Flying.
If you want to add some good information, Steve Winder gave a lot of information giving tubing sizes and wall thicknesses of the different models, It was interesting reading, but he deserves his own slot over here, I would put down the tubing sizes of the ModelIV and where they are since that was the ultimate of the Avids when He was there, the Pursang was probably a bit better but Larson is putting those down in an interesting manner, If people could look at one place and see what size tubing was used in each location it would be of advantage to the people who are rebuilding their planes. Some of the information about how the stretch was a matter of taking out 75 feet of tubing and adding back, I'll let you find that answer.
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I don't think or at least didn't mean to say the airshock wouldn't work, but my math was in the ball park, I believe the next point of failure is the V at the top of the struts, if a person were to put a cross member through there it would triangulate it and take the seat truss out of the equation. Like I said the troubles seem to occur with the 1 % ers and then only when they have reached beyond the limit, If you can build it I can break it, the only thing I had to really say about the airshock is that the patent won't hold up. I will never build a part to sell if someone else is making a living at it but someone will. I think the ultimate for now is the Highlander Superstohl with 18 inches of travel, other than the wings coming off I don't know how you could break it without trying.
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There is something about a tripacer that I just like, If I buy a certified plane that would be the one, I have been finding some around me that the old guys are finally letting go of with 400 hours on the engines and they are only asking $14000 give or take for. I just consider it to be the big overgrown Avid. Both my wife and Daughter want to get their pilots licenses and with 2 to have trained the rental cost would be about the same price as buying a Tri Pacer, everyone has to have a goal, planes aren't real active around here and it seems that every third farmer is an A&P but nobody flies anymore, they do work on the planes fairly cheap with annuals costing under a grand for a fairly simple plane. It goes up if you have IFR but still stays reasonable. I have hangar costs that a lot of people would dream of a nested T hangar on the end so I have an extra half hangar so I spend the extra money for it I pay $600 a year, mechanics that are cheap and available planes that are reasonable but flight instructors trying to make there annual salary off of one student while I am on a fixed income.
I wish I was still working there would be flying planes in my hangar instead of half finished proects.
I understand what you are talking about with the cost of parts, I started building a Lycoming 235 and when I got to the piston rings it was cheaper to machine the pistons and run ford Big Block rings instead of buying one ring I got a complete set for less.
When it comes to the Good old boys Club, I have worked in my hangar most days for the past year, and other than the occaissional person stopping for fuel, I have the airport to myself
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Leni is enjoying his new baby during his break from the rock so I'll link to this. He's been working a similar project for a long time now with the 800.
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/77-my-new-power-plant/
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Just make sure you do it right. A guy just posted this week on the other forum who totalled his plane while towing after a wing swung out going down the highway and I know of a few others who have done the same thing. I'd post pics of mine if I was home. Are they in the manual anyplace? A full manual is posted in the Files and Forms area on here.
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I seen you mentioned Tripacers in another thread. If you can be part of a good ol boy club for your annuals they are pretty capable airplane. Like you mentioned you can get a good one for 25K. There is def a lot more hidden costs with a certified plane though...just ask Leni about his 180 parts lol
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<Ask the question on www.rotaryforum.com they specialize in alternative motors>
I looked at the snowmobile motors and did a lot of research on the Arctic cat engines I liked what i seen on them the engines are produced by Suzuki the engine that I was looking at was the zr600 with the efi setup I know that they had problems with the stator on the engine that I was looking at 98 and 99 model the problem that with that motor was there was no battery in the sled every thing was ran off the stator so I did more research and got the wiring diagram for the 99 sled and saw how they got the power from the stator I am sure that I could probley change the wiring around and power the efi and everything from a battery and just use the lighting part of the stator to charge the battery I am a member of the arctic forum and have ask about the ecms I know that the efi setup that is on the 2 strokes are a speed density setup meaning they work off a preset fuel table I like this setup the problem that I seen was the high cost of the ecms I can not believe what the dealer wants for the ecms it is almost a throw away sled if it is very old because of the price of the ecm I have not given up on the arctic cat setup I could probley convert this engine to efi by using the setup from the arctic cat it would not be that hard to do my background has been in aviation until I was 45 years old then changed professions and worked in electronic repair for 10 years and then self employed 8 years .boy I am getting old quick.....lol by the way thinks for the reply I will go over to the rotory forum and ask there
thanks Bob
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Yes I've looked at a MKIV and the mount is totally different. I bought this whole FWF from John Miller from the Yahoo Group many years ago and I don't really know the history behind it. The muffler does use rubber stand off mounts to hold it to the firewall but it could flex some more. I wonder if I could retrofit that piece that hangs off the later motor mounts to make it work. Can anyone post some good pictures of it? Dean is the one that did this FWF but he's never claimed to be an engine man so I'm sure it could be done better. It's worked pretty well for 4 years and 330 hrs so I'm not too worried about it though. Since I am yanking my manifold off for a piston inspection I thought I should address it and try to make it better than it is.
Rubber Standoffs
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Herman this is just a guess but I think 3" is about right. I will take pics when I get home and diassemble it for painting. These springs will hopefully allow for at least 2" of compression. Those springs on the first version would support a loaded 185. They had no travel. The weight of the airplane didn't even make them budge. You can see in the above picture of the unpainted gear there was only about 1/16" between each wrap of the spring. It was basically fixed.
Trackwelder I have a friend that is running the air rage shock system on his S-7. It is the Roberts Gear pictured above only it was retrofitted to use the airshocks instead of bungees. I can attest that he uses them to the max extent possible. Even his own home strip is very gnarly and ALL his landings are off airport on mountaintops in Idaho. He is running 31's too but he's had good luck with it so far. He started out with a Kitfox 1 a long long time ago and this is his 2nd S-7 and he said it's built so much better for that kind of operations.
Your right about the bungee gear. I think it'll take a pretty good hit before anything bends..the weak area is the seat truss. You are correct that if you beef one thing something else is going to fail IF you prang one in. The goal is find that balance where it'll take a pretty good licking and keep on ticking. The Airdale gear is built out of 1" tube with an .049 wall I believe. HighWing LLC used 1 1/4" for the front leg but 1" the rest of the way around. The Roberts gear uses 1 1/2" and is quite a bit beefier all the way around. It requires welding on the fuse to even install it. The Highlander Gear that Steve Henry had on Yehaw 1 and 2 uses 3 legs instead of two so the Cabane has it's own set of legs.
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Trackwelder, I hope I didn't come across as snooty or anything I just don't want to see another person tear up their airplane. I can count 4 people that I personally know who have taken a brand new or rebuilt airplane out and wrecked it when their only intention was just to taxi it. Seeing my Dad laying in a pile of tubing is a memory I'll never forget. He was 100% convinced he was ready to fly. The biggest issue with these forums is there's always more to the story than most people let on. Moving on...
I attended Amelia Reid Aviation in San Jose CA. My instructor has several Stick and Rudder books published and had over 20,000 hrs in hand prop to start tail draggers. Create a profile on BackcountryPilot.org and ask if anyone from your region knows a good hole in the wall instructor. It seems the really good ones don't advertise and those guys on that site seem to really know where the good ones hide out. Your right at some point you have to cut the cord and go for it. I was scared to death during my first landing in my Avid. I was dreading it from the moment the wheels left the ground because I knew it would be the hardest part of the first flight. If at all possible fly off of grass at first it is MUCH more forgiving than pavement.
BACK ON TOPIC I'm still waiting for someone to rise to my challenge and give me something to go digging for on the Yahoo site so it doesn't get lost forever. Come on guys I'm deployed 8000 miles from home and my family and spend my evenings in a 10X10ft cell with a roomate and surrounded by sheets hanging from 550 cord and playing around online looking at tech data and your posts is what get's me through that down time each evening. Once I get home It'll be back to my normal crazy life and I wont' have nearly the time to spend on this site.
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T Bucket I am surprised that no one wants to fly a Tailwind, I have plans for the Tailwind the Cougar and the Buttercup, The Buttercup is at the same stage as the Avid, or just a little behind, I need to sandblast before I cover and complete the leading edge flaps, I am not used to riveting aluminum yet and it really is a 2 person job to skin them even just trying to run a 10 foot sheet through the English wheel is more than I can do alone anymore. With as many tailwinds as there are out there, you should be able to get someone who can fly one. Where are you flying out of that you can't find a pilot. I know that few want to teach in a taildragger, but if it is your own plane crop dusting season is over and one of those guys should be able to do it.
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I am a disabled Vet living on a pension from the railroad and a partial pension from the VA, I have about 30 hours with an instructor who was more interested in building his own time than in teaching me to fly, the other instructor teaches solely Light sport and I have 10 landings in a Kitfox, I don't worry about takeoffs, the landings are what I have always been concerned with, when I can plant a cub or a Kitfox directly on the numbers 10 out of ten times and grease in every landing three point or wheel, I feel that I have an Instructor who isn't interested in teaching, I should have gone to one of those quick learn taildragger schools, but I felt I would get a better education from someone who flew in the 15 knot crosswinds we normally have to deal with, no I don't feel like I am ready to land in Idaho at some of those backwoods strips, But I won't feel that way until after I have done it. There is a point where you have to give up on the instructor, mine was when I heard him snoring in the backseat when I was practicing landings, If he is comfortable enough to go to sleep on me I am wasting my time with him.
Since I got that out of my system, which of the taildragger schools did you attend, Riding in a car for 500 miles kills my back but at least I have enough titanium in it to hold everything in place now, If I can find someone who is willing to teach I am willing to learn, but I am not kidding about being able to land on a grass or concrete runway on the numbers or about my instructor snoring in the back seat of a sport cub for an hour while I did full stop takeoff and landings with the 15 knot crosswind, when I finally shut her down all he had to say was that the school didn't allow me to fly in that much crosswind.
My new ride
in Avidfoxflyers General Hangar
akflyer
Posted
Damn... That's 2 weeks hangar rent here.. Hence 90% of the planes live outside