More legroom in an Avid

[MikeRSawyer 2]

Hi folks, I'm working on an Avid Model C kit and would like to gain some legroom for my 6'1" frame. If anyone has already done this I'd appreciate some feeback on what to look out for and where to get an extended engine mount made up. I'm thinking of using the Hirth 3502 engine. Thanks

[akflyer 1427]

Hi folks, I'm working on an Avid Model C kit and would like to gain some legroom for my 6'1" frame. If anyone has already done this I'd appreciate some feeback on what to look out for and where to get an extended engine mount made up. I'm thinking of using the Hirth 3502 engine. Thanks

I would say the easiest way to get some head and leg room is to get a seat pan from a kit fox model II or III. It will scoot you back a couple inches and drops you down a little too. I let the laces out on my sling seat till my butt almost hits the controls, but I think the KF seat is a bit more comfortable.

Almost EVERY one of these planes comes out on the nose heavy side, even with a 582. Why would you want an extended engine mount?

[Av8r3400 1179]

If you can't "find" one, Brett has them at Airdale...

[akflyer 1427]

If you can't "find" one, Brett has them at Airdale...

An engine mount or the fiberglass seat pan?

It would be a whole lot easier to get stuff if it was listed on the website. I know a guy who has built a few websites (me) that would be glad to help him out getting the site updated and get all the products listed. It would be awesome to be able to click n buy right on line instead of playing phone tag. Damn, it would suck if I had to fly down there and set the parts up to take pics for the website. I would really hate to help do that.

[Av8r3400 1179]

An engine mount or the fiberglass seat pan?

It would be a whole lot easier to get stuff if it was listed on the website. I know a guy who has built a few websites (me) that would be glad to help him out getting the site updated and get all the products listed. It would be awesome to be able to click n buy right on line instead of playing phone tag. Damn, it would suck if I had to fly down there and set the parts up to take pics for the website. I would really hate to help do that.

(Seat pan.)

Maybe you ought offer to do just that for him.

His time is so filled with what he is doing and with his little baby that he has hit the wall of what his time will allow to do with the website....

Edited 25 Jan 2011 by Av8r3400

[efil 01 74]

Hi folks, I'm working on an Avid Model C kit and would like to gain some legroom for my 6'1" frame. If anyone has already done this I'd appreciate some feeback on what to look out for and where to get an extended engine mount made up. I'm thinking of using the Hirth 3502 engine. Thanks

hello,as i'm tall too; this is my solution for the model C i'm building:

radiator belly mont, and reboxing firewall to push forward rudder pedals.

[akflyer 1427]

hello,as i'm tall too; this is my solution for the model C i'm building:

radiator belly mont, and reboxing firewall to push forward rudder pedals.

Are you using a 582? how far forward can you push the pedals without hitting the muffler? I dont have any room to move the firewall forward on mine due to the muffler being less than 1/4" away from the firewall as it is now

[MikeRSawyer 2]

I would say the easiest way to get some head and leg room is to get a seat pan from a kit fox model II or III. It will scoot you back a couple inches and drops you down a little too. I let the laces out on my sling seat till my butt almost hits the controls, but I think the KF seat is a bit more comfortable.

Almost EVERY one of these planes comes out on the nose heavy side, even with a 582. Why would you want an extended engine mount?

Hi Leonard, my thought was that in order to get more legroom I'd necessarily have to scoot the engine farther forward. Your mention of the KF seat though reminds me that when I bought the kit I also received the fiberglass seat, which I assumed was the original. I was told it was way uncomfortable, so I rejected using it and stuck in up on a shelf in the shed, and just assumed the sling seat was better. I'm pulling that fiberglass seat down today and trying it out. Just by losing the 2-3" of cushioning I should help myself out quite a bit, then I might only have to move the firewall 3" like John told me he did on the Avid Flyer sight. I assume he has a 582 and had the room to move the pedals and firewall 3" without changing anything in the engine compartment. Both of these websites are extremely valuable to someone like me who is new to airplane building. If you hadn't mentioned the fiberglass seat option I would never have thought to try it. For whatever reason when I bought the kit I got the strong impression that the sling seat was "way better", so I rejected the fiberglass. Many thanks for the suggestion. I've already done the 16 inch stretch, with the help of a friend in my EAA chapter who welds, so I was thinking that if I had to move the engine I had a little leeway. Hopefully now the stock mount will work. The Hirth 3502 has the same mounting as the 582, but the shape of the engine is obviously different. We'll see. If anyone knows of a 3502 in an Avid I'd love to hear about it. Thanks again, Mike

[akflyer 1427]

Hi Leonard, my thought was that in order to get more legroom I'd necessarily have to scoot the engine farther forward. Your mention of the KF seat though reminds me that when I bought the kit I also received the fiberglass seat, which I assumed was the original. I was told it was way uncomfortable, so I rejected using it and stuck in up on a shelf in the shed, and just assumed the sling seat was better. I'm pulling that fiberglass seat down today and trying it out. Just by losing the 2-3" of cushioning I should help myself out quite a bit, then I might only have to move the firewall 3" like John told me he did on the Avid Flyer sight. I assume he has a 582 and had the room to move the pedals and firewall 3" without changing anything in the engine compartment. Both of these websites are extremely valuable to someone like me who is new to airplane building. If you hadn't mentioned the fiberglass seat option I would never have thought to try it. For whatever reason when I bought the kit I got the strong impression that the sling seat was "way better", so I rejected the fiberglass. Many thanks for the suggestion. I've already done the 16 inch stretch, with the help of a friend in my EAA chapter who welds, so I was thinking that if I had to move the engine I had a little leeway. Hopefully now the stock mount will work. The Hirth 3502 has the same mounting as the 582, but the shape of the engine is obviously different. We'll see. If anyone knows of a 3502 in an Avid I'd love to hear about it. Thanks again, Mike

AHHHH IC, this post makes it alot more clear. Sounds like you have thought it out and are moving forwards nicely! I really wish I had done the stretch when I was replacing longerons tubes in my plane anyway. I am still kicking myself in the ass for not doing it. I should have upgraded the control system to have more baggage like the fat avids or airdale has too.

[efil 01 74]

Are you using a 582? how far forward can you push the pedals without hitting the muffler? I dont have any room to move the firewall forward on mine due to the muffler being less than 1/4" away from the firewall as it is now

damn, yes it is 582 but i didn't know muffler was so close

i didn't start fuselage,so i was just anticipating.

[akflyer 1427]

damn, yes it is 582 but i didn't know muffler was so close

i didn't start fuselage,so i was just anticipating.

OK here is an option for you. Cut the bottom of the cowl out and roll the muffler a little further forward. You may have to re-weld the mounts (muffler mounts), but you can probably pull it off, but you will need to move the muffler.

Come to think of it, that is a great idea, and maybe I will do the same on mine when I stuff that other engine in. I would love a few more inches of leg room! That is the great part about the internet forums. Sometimes the answer is right in front of us and we just cant see it very clearly!

[efil 01 74]

OK here is an option for you. Cut the bottom of the cowl out and roll the muffler a little further forward. You may have to re-weld the mounts (muffler mounts), but you can probably pull it off, but you will need to move the muffler.

Come to think of it, that is a great idea, and maybe I will do the same on mine when I stuff that other engine in. I would love a few more inches of leg room! That is the great part about the internet forums. Sometimes the answer is right in front of us and we just cant see it very clearly!

yep, i had that hidden in my brain, assuming rotaring muffle can be done, the firewall must be surely extended only where foot are and leave central part at the same place cause it will hit engine

[Av8r3400 1179]

AHHHH IC, this post makes it alot more clear. Sounds like you have thought it out and are moving forwards nicely! I really wish I had done the stretch when I was replacing longerons tubes in my plane anyway. I am still kicking myself in the ass for not doing it. I should have upgraded the control system to have more baggage like the fat avids or airdale has too.

You guys would be so excited to see the Avid "Sputzy" that my buddy is building now. He did the 15" stretch, a custom wide body modification, larger rudder and tail, Kitfox IV wings, Kitfox IV flapperon mixer, and more...

[akflyerbob 41]

About rollong the muff forward..mine is close to ther firewall

and the corners of the cowl are cut out to fit the front of the muff.

Part of the cut out part is not covered up by the ring cowl.

That all might be because the Kit has more legroom to startwith,

maybe shorter eng mount???.

[akflyer 1427]

You guys would be so excited to see the Avid "Sputzy" that my buddy is building now. He did the 15" stretch, a custom wide body modification, larger rudder and tail, Kitfox IV wings, Kitfox IV flapperon mixer, and more...

Pics Mr. post up some pics! Sounds like she is gonna be a nice machine!

[Av8r3400 1179]

Pics Mr. post up some pics! Sounds like she is gonna be a nice machine!

Here's some pictures of Dave's Sputzy. The "champ" rudder mod, early phase of the wide body kit (before he cut out and canned the Avid mixer in favor of the Kitfox IV unit), the last picture is Dave, standing in front of his last project, a 150 hp Clipper that stands a very, very good chance of bringing home a trophy from Airventure 2011.

[SuberAvid 617]

OK here is an option for you. Cut the bottom of the cowl out and roll the muffler a little further forward. You may have to re-weld the mounts (muffler mounts), but you can probably pull it off, but you will need to move the muffler.

Come to think of it, that is a great idea, and maybe I will do the same on mine when I stuff that other engine in. I would love a few more inches of leg room! That is the great part about the internet forums. Sometimes the answer is right in front of us and we just cant see it very clearly!

My MK IV has a bump out in the firewall in front of the rudder peddals. I thought that was a standard item on the MK IV to just bend the firewall out about 3" just below the mid engine mount point and then angle it back to the mounting points at the bottom. I was still able to fit the 582 muffler under the cowl with only a slight cut out of the cowl lip at the bottom. I works pretty well to get a little more leg room and rudder pedal travel but with big boots you sometomes snag the top of he bump out with your toes.

[SuberAvid 617]

Here's some pictures of Dave's Sputzy. The "champ" rudder mod, early phase of the wide body kit (before he cut out and canned the Avid mixer in favor of the Kitfox IV unit), the last picture is Dave, standing in front of his last project, a 150 hp Clipper that stands a very, very good chance of bringing home a trophy from Airventure 2011.

It sounds a lot like the Avid+. I am not familiar with the KF mixer; I assumed it was very similar to the Avid. Does it open up the area behind the seat for baggage? Where does it mount and does it use pushpull tubes like the Avid? I am loving the completely open baggage area in the Avid+ with the mixer under the seat and the Push/pull cables to the flaperons. I no longer have to use a vacume packer on my gear

[Av8r3400 1179]

Here's a couple of pics of the mixer install and the wide body/custom door...