Flaperons

[lv2plyguitar 172]

I know from experience that the flaperons are very effective when getting down on the ground quickly.  On short runways when I need pressure on the ground to get my plane stopped, dumping the flaprons does the trick.  Randy probably knows this to.  My Avid would float for a ways if I left the flaperons down.

[dholly 718]

Jim,

 

My Mk-IV did not have the nut welded on, maybe Stan the factory welder missed it?

 

P.S. - another KF, must be getting a little tight out in the projects barn these days, LOL!

[1avidflyer 1983]

Doug,  just want a longer list of planes than you ;-)  Looks like it will be a bit more work than I wanted..... Do able and worth it, but I only have so much time.....Jim

[cliff 45]

We rigged the airplane as described in the manual, Limited the flaps to 15degrees and it flew hands off on the first flight today after a 2 year restoration. It is easier to fly than our Kolb twinstar. Another old Avid is back in the air. Thanks all for your good advice. Now we have to get back to work  on our MK IV. We started the work on it about 4 years ago. We used the wings we built for it to replace the speed wings on our Avid A model. So now we are going to rebuild the speed wings and install the extension kit that we bought from Brett about 2 years ago. We are going to completely dissassemble the speed wings and rebuid them. Does any one have any idea what the best washout for extended speed wings should be? We also need a left speed wing fuel tank. Anybody have one for sale?

[dynomike 91]

that's awesome ,congratulations on a safe first flight !

[cliff 45]

Dynomike, thank you. It was a rewarding day to say the least. 

[EDMO 1078]

Cliff,

      Unless someone, like our DHolly, has better technical info on the extended speed wings, I would use 1/2 inch washout on the MkIV- whether that is at the end of the original spar, or the end of the extension, is something I wouldn't know.  It might not matter which?

      1/2 inch washout seems to be the general consensus for better cruise than the old 1 1/2 inch washout on the early birds.

EdMO

Edited 15 Sep 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[cliff 45]

Thanks Ed. I was thinking it would be 1 inch or less. Does anybody else have an opinion? Brett told me that extending the speed wing with the original wash out almost canceled out the additional wing area because the wash out would increase with the extension. It made sense, so we decided we would rebuild the entire wing and build in what ever wash out we wanted. We won't get to it until spring but we would like to know for sure from some one who has done it so we build the best wing we can. We have a set of Kitfox 4 droop wing tips that we plan to use. We are looking for the best middle of the road cruise speed and stol performance. Should I start another thread for this topic?

[cliff 45]

Just so we are on the same page, we have an Avid mkIV that we plan to use extended speed wing. We have a freshly overhauled 582 by Rotax Rick, C box, and a big 3 blade prop that I can't remember the make of off the top of my head, Came off a Kitfox IV. Looking for the wash out for the wing rebuild. We also need the left fuel tank. Will a Kitfox IV fuel tank work?

[Av8r3400 1179]

The fuel tank won't be an exact fit but should be close enough to work just fine.

 

From what I've read and heard, the jury is still (way) out on the droop tips.  Many people in the know have opined that you'd be far better off, performance wise, with a flat plate on the end of the wing with a 1-2" lip.

[EDMO 1078]

I think the ultimate performance, as far as these birds go, would be to use the late Kitfox modified Riblett profile with the plastic leading edge and the Hoerner tips mounted at a 7 degree angle.

EdMO

Edited 16 Sep 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[cliff 45]

I have owned and flown several Cessnas both with and without droop tips. I know they have a positive impact on a Cessnas slow speed handeling. My first 182 had the big Deamer droop tips and flap and aileron gap seals, It was one of the nicest flying old straight tail 182's that I have ever flown. Back when I had that 182 my father had a bone stock 180 and 10,000 hrs of flying time in dozens of Cessnas (skydiver pilot). When ever he would fly my 182 he would just rave about how nice it flew. He wouldn't put them on his 180 because he didn't like the way they looked, "didn't fit the lines of his beautiful 180". The 180 I own now has a horton stol kit with fences, small droop tips, cuffed leading edge, aileron and flap gap seals. It gets off the ground quickly and in more capable hands it will land in a very short distance. I think it would handle better with the larger droop tips but I don't think Horton offers them for this stol kit. I am a fan of the droop tips. I have a few hours in my budies Avid heavy hauler with a stock stol wing, our  model A with the droop tips lands much slower. We will probably do some side by side comparisons in the future after I get more comfortable in our Avid. His plane has the same engine and very similar airframe set up except he is a tinkerer and loves hanging crap all over the place in his plane. He even has a parking brake warning light! Ours has only the basics and is very light, but I weigh a 100lbs more than him so the side by side comparisons should be fairly accurate.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Droop tips working on a Cessna wing is a totally different bread of dog than on an Avid or Kitfox.

I cite precedence, again. If they worked well they would still offer them. They don't because they didn't.

Not to mention they are uglier than sin.

[EDMO 1078]

I think Kitfox may have stopped the droop tips because they were going for better cruise with the new wing and bigger engines, instead of the STOL of the early light models - They were also a LOT heavier than the later Hoerner tips.

BTW:  With my extended leading edges, the Cessna 177, 182, 210, Semi-drooped tips fit my Foxy just fine - that's what I am using.

EDMO

[cliff 45]

If a Cessna 180 worked well they would still build them. Your precedence theory doesn't hold water. I can name dozens of things that are not built or offered anymore that out perform what is available today. You have an opinion, do you have the hands on experience to tell me why droop tips  are no good?

[Cropduster13 11]

Guy's FWIW I flew agtruck's for 25 year's Cessna 188's with and without the drooptips drooptip's are good for limiting your view and for banging your head and that's about all. And we did do side by side testing to see which plane worked best.

[Cropduster13 11]

Oh I also took the droop tip's off my KF4 and put on the removeable tip's no difference in performance, I flew it off a 300ft remote control airport at 4000ft elevation very high DA's in summer.

[cliff 45]

How can droop tips limit your view on a Cessna 188 or an ag truck? I have never flown a low wing airplane with droop tips so I am curious how they block your view. If the kitfox preformed the same before and after you changed the wing tips , why waste the money to buy new ones if there is no difference in performance. I have a set of kitfox 4 droop tips, they are paid for, Why should I spend money on different tips if there is negligable difference in the way they perform. Besides the fact that they are ugly.

[Cropduster13 11]

The view comment was for the KF4, and all the other high wing planes I have flown with them, my cousin damaged the wing tip on my KF4 and I replaced the tip's like I said just my 2 cent's but I agree that I wouldn't change them if there already on.

[avidchh 3]

I've posted this before but since it came up here is another picture of the detent I made.

Stephen

[IFMT 36]

I sure like your detent set up for flaps. Would you have any more pics of the back side mounting? Did you create this by hand (lots of filing and sanding) or machine? Thanks. B

[avidchh 3]

Here is the back side. I took a 1/4 nylon piece, mounted and measured the degrees of deflection and marked the centers. I removed and then I used a Dremel to make the grooves. Works very well and holds up to vibration so it doesn't slip.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Similar to my idea, only different.

Http://Www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/709-classic-iv-restoration/?p=10911

Edited 6 Oct 2014 by Av8r3400