Fuel Line time

[C5Engineer 1170]

I've been using the Blue stuff from CPS for ages. It seems to hold up pretty well against the moonshine gas. I need to replace my fuel line this year when I do my conditional and was thinking of going to something else. Seems alot of folks are running the Parker Hose. It's 4.95 a foot. I figure it takes me around 12ft I think to do my entire my so it would be around $60 or so. Small investment to not have to worry about your line breaking down. Anyone know how clamps work on that parker line's outer sheath? For those that don't know what I'm talking about it's this stuff.

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/parkersuperflex.php

 

 

 

The other option is if it ain't broke don't fix it and keep running the ol Bing Blue

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/hose_fuel/bingfuel.php

 

Come to think of it I think I have quite a bit of that left over in my hangar.

[dholly 718]

$1.52/ft - Good stuff.

http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/883-new-fuel-line-products/

[EDMO 1078]

Doug,

I want to run direct lines from my 2nd tank in each wing to valves in the cockpit. This line would be put thru grommets aft of the rear spar thru each wing rib web. I have been debating whether to use the polyurethene or nylon lines, or the gates rubber line. I need a minimum of 5/16 I.D. to feed my engine from only one tank. What is the O.D. of the Gates fuel line? I want to keep the grommets as small as possible.

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

I was reading on the Rans Forum that a guy had a 25ft roll of both the black stuff and Tygon ( the yellow stuff) and he said the Black roll was signicantly heavier than the other line. It sounds like you have to use metal hose clamps on everything too. I use hose clamps on wing outlets and on my carbs and fuel pump but safety wire or those plastic clamps on everything else. I now it's not much weight but every little bit counts. I think I'm gonna stick to the Bing Alcohol Resistant Blue line and keep changing it out every other year. Doug everything in my system is 1/4". How did you get away with 5/16" line throughout your system?

[dholly 718]

Joey- 5/16" i.d. is what the KF4 w/912 plumbing calls for to the fuel pump, 1/4" Bing blue line from pump to carbs. Barricade is definitely heavier but I couldn't find 5/16" i.d. blue line and my cockpit no longer smells of gas so all is good!

@ Ed- 9/16" o.d.

[C5Engineer 1170]

That makes sense Doug. Getting rid of the gas smell would be a plus. The only time I notice it in mine is when I open it up for the first time after it's sat in the hangar a few days but the wife says I always have a distinct scent after I've been out flying lol.

[EDMO 1078]

I posted this earlier, but mistakenly put it in the vent line posts

Doug, SuberAvid, Joey, anyone,

I cant find the blue line in large enough diameter to feed my Soob. I need 5/16 ID minimum, but prefer 3/8 ID. What can you tell me about the 2 kinds of Polywhatever, and also Nylon?

Any suggestions?

EDMO

[dholly 718]

As I said Ed, I couldn't find 5/16" blue line either so I used Gates Barricade. The link I provided in Post #2 might help you re: sizes available. Nylon line may work well in cars but I wouldn't put it in my aircraft, IMHO. Only other plastic fuel line I would feel comfortable using besides Bing would be yellow Tygon. Graingers has 3/8" id... But... $250 for 50'... OUCH!

[EDMO 1078]

As I said Ed, I couldn't find 5/16" blue line either so I used Gates Barricade. The link I provided in Post #2 might help you re: sizes available. Nylon line may work well in cars but I wouldn't put it in my aircraft, IMHO. Only other plastic fuel line I would feel comfortable using besides Bing would be yellow Tygon. Graingers has 3/8" id... But... $250 for 50'... OUCH!

Reading Spruce, and the Polyurethene got the highest praise in the ads - better than the polyetheline or whatever poly is there. I could see nylon getting brittle over time - but it seems to work fine in brake lines?

Grainger is just too proud of that yellow - I think I will let them keep it.

Thanks,

EDMO

Edited 10 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[akflyer 1427]

so if its not broke ya just gotta fix it  

 

[EDMO 1078]

so if its not broke ya just gotta fix it  

 

NOPE - Got to buy it - don't have it - Need to further my edumykation!

SO, what can you tell my about all the Polys and Hoses?

You getting any sleep - or you on slope and leaving poor Mrs to handle the hard part?

EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

Ed,  I wonder why you need 5/16" line.  I've used 1/4" on all the Avids I've had, never ran short of fuel.  Even the Jabiru with gravity feed was fine.  I have had the 1/4" aluminum tubes pointing forward on the gas caps on the last two Avids, and I'm sure that helps some.  JIm

[EDMO 1078]

Ed,  I wonder why you need 5/16" line.  I've used 1/4" on all the Avids I've had, never ran short of fuel.  Even the Jabiru with gravity feed was fine.  I have had the 1/4" aluminum tubes pointing forward on the gas caps on the last two Avids, and I'm sure that helps some.  JIm

Jim,

From the best of my knowledge, to feed the 1800cc or 109 cubic inch Subaru, you need more gas flow at max power than the 582 - much like the Lycomings and Continental engines of that size, I think you are supposed to have 3/8 aluminum lines, which are 5/16 ID. There is a formula for fuel flow based on cubic inches, but I would have to go back to my books to find it.

The original lines to feed my 2-barrel Holly carb were 3/8, so that is what I am going by for the system.

The requirement from the FAA on fuel flow is 150% of consumption at max power for gravity systems, and 125% for pump systems. The system is supposed to be flow-tested to prove it meets the requirements.

The confusion may come from the fact that at cruise my Soob will burn less gas than the 2-cycles, and they use 1/4 inch ID lines. The tubes on the caps are only passing air, which is less dense than gas, so they can be smaller. I have the 1/4 tubes on my caps too.

Hope this makes sense, and helps explain my situation better. I am trying to get better educated on the different types of plastic fuel lines, and their costs and fittings.

EDMO

Edited 11 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[akflyer 1427]

OK I gotta chime in here... The suber burns less gas at take off and at cruise than my 582..... could it possibly be that someone is over thinking or over engineering something again

 

 

There are NO FAA requirements on the fuel flow testing for EXPERIMENTAL A.B. PLANES.... yes, they can be used as a guideline if you want to, but there is no REQUIREMENT TO.  WE are free to kill ourselves if we see fit to do so with a plane made out of electrical conduit and a duct taped on tarp if that is what flips our minnow.

 

I got a little bit of sleep, but I am now on the slope and letting the misses earn her keep by trying to take care of our lil one   She gonna have her hands full with this one

 

[EDMO 1078]

Yes Leni - I agree that FAA regs for "real" planes, are just guidelines for us experimenters - but sometimes they have enough experience to put some sense into them - Like the test for fuel flow and unusable fuel at adverse angles of attack.

I don't know squat about 2-cycle engines - Maybe they are so inefficient that a 582cc engine burns more fuel than a 1800cc 4-cycle engine at max power? I was only taught that it takes x pounds of fuel to make x horsepower.

What I do know - Is that my Soob came with a 3/8 line going to the Holly carb. This gives me sufficient reason to feed that line with same-size lines from the tanks. I also know what fuel pressure I need for that carb.

Now, I have a choice - Go with rubber lines and those very expensive AN fittings, or educate myself enough to decide on what type of Poly-line will give the best service, and use cheap fittings.

Since my FAA approved AMT school did not teach one minute about Poly-lines, I have to self-educate, or borrow knowledge from someone else. I don't have a clue as to what "Bing Blue" is made from, but it does not come in my size, and Doug says it is permeable, since you can smell gas, so I need to find a substitute.

Meanwhile, I am trying to get my wings rebuilt, and busy weighing Bondo!

EDMO

Edited 11 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[wypaul 448]

Ed may I suggest that you look at Tygon for your hosing pleasure.   It is available in the size you are looking for.

 

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23487

[EDMO 1078]

Ed may I suggest that you look at Tygon for your hosing pleasure.   It is available in the size you are looking for.

 

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23487

Thanks Paul,

I have been reading my MSC catalog which usually give very detailed explanations about its products - About settled on the Tygon yellow translucent fuel lines at about $1.93 per foot, it wont break the bank because the fittings are 10x cheaper than AN.

Last question: What clear tubing does Kitfox use for the sight gages? It must be gas resistant, and I think it is also used for the vent line from header tank, so you can verify you have fuel in the header tank. Further Last Question: Why is this not used for fuel supply lines?

EDMO

Well, One More for the engineering types: Tygon is Shore A-57 - What shore hardness is preferred for the barbed fittings - should it be soft as 60, but not more than 85? Which is best? I know you go to push-lock at 90.

Edited 11 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[dholly 718]

I changed out all the barb style hose fittings on my KF4 with beaded fittings. Recommended by Gates for the Barricade fuel line, much nicer on the hoses.

[EDMO 1078]

I changed out all the barb style hose fittings on my KF4 with beaded fittings. Recommended by Gates for the Barricade fuel line, much nicer on the hoses.

Are these the AN beaded fittings, or something cheaper? Where to buy?

I think the clear sight gages are polyurethane??? By Tygon?

EDMO

Edited 12 Sep 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[dholly 718]

Clear Tygon for sight tubes

 

Winco Fluid Power Inc.
PO Box 355
Jamison, PA 18929
Tel: 215-657-4940
www.wincofp.com

 

PCO 168-05-04
168-05-04
(10) x $0.999 EA = $9.99