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What Joey said X2   If they are not using, then they are not trying to get everything out of the Kitfox or Avid.  On Skis it makes a huge difference as pulling on the flaperons will pick the tail up and out of the snow much faster.  Same on sand and loose gravel.  My normal take off is pop full flaperons at 35 indicated and get into low ground effect to get me off the grass, sand, snow , water etc. then hold it in low ground effect and bleed off the flaps as I accelerate then climb out.  If I am coming out of a really short strip, I will keep about 1/2 flaps in till I have cleared the obstacle.  Landing I use full flaperons unless I am on floats, then I use full flaps for the approach and at the flare I bleed off about 1/2 flaps so I have enough elevator to get the nose up and slow the plane down real nice before I touch down.  Depending on how I am loaded on floats, I may not have enough elevator to get the nose up where I want it with full flaps.

I use the same grease I use on car wheel bearings.  I am pulling the tires atleast 3 times a year to swap to floats and skis so they get repacked pretty often. 

Hi Jack,

I forgot to say, the plane looks great. Sorry if I made it sound like I was being negative about using Kydex. I was just trying to point out that Leni might not save as much weight as you would think by switching to it. It's really tough stuff though. If you can deal with a little extra weight, it will take some abuse.

The point is you've almost got a flying airplane. Good job!

Luke D.

Not using them for takeoff leaves a ton of performance on the table. I fly an approach 5-8 mph slower with the. On vs. off. I only have 15 degrees on mine.

Leni,

I got the Kydex from CAC Plastics up in Wasila, 907-376-7111.  I thiink the thickness was about .060.  fairly thin  and easy to work with.  I was going to measure a piece, but, I think I gave my last one to Randy for his little battery box.

The secondary ignition failed on the sub, so right now I'm trying to find a replacement so I can retain the safety margin that two ignitions provide. May be a few bites left in this elephant. 

Jack

Since I am a little slow on building, putting my wife through school on my Disability pension, I will send you to a place where this has been done and is working in various aircraft www.rotaryforum,com look at the genesis 120 engine thead, they have come up with 3 different ways to hook a PSRU to the engine and they are available from 80 hp to 150 hp so far there have been about 1000 hours put on at least one conversion, there is one adapter at $1000 for between the engine and the PSRU, The Yamaha engine is only single plug, but a separate coil for each plug, the first engine service other than oil changes is at 20,000 miles for a valve adjustment, though 150 hp is beyond what I need for my Avid, by holding it to about a 80hp range it should last longer,

     I bought a snowmobile for $3000 and hope to be able to sell off things like the hood seats and suspension to cover the cost of the conversion, Around here snowmobile engines outlast most snowmobiles, not enough snow but people will spend the money to buy them and run them anytime there is any white on the ground and wear out the rest of the machine while the engine gets little if any wear.

One thing I would mention about the whelen strobes, is they take quite a bit of power.  At least the aircraft ones do, and I would imagine that the car ones would be at least as bad in that reguard.  The charging system may not be able to handle that much current draw.  Something to concider at any rate.  Jim Chuk

I'm tinkering with using some 12 volt strobes that I've removed from some police cars. I believe they are whelen strobes. The cars had bulbs in the head lights and the tail lights. I just need to figure out how to put a lens cover over the bulbs. I've removed at least 8 complete units, maybe more than that. I even have a new set of aircraft directional strobes from whelen that i could use. It seems after looking at them they are interchangeable with the car units as well. Since my Avid was needing the wings covered, I ran the wires in the left wing and have not deceided if I'm going to use the directionals or the just put the cars strobe bulbs in it. I just need to find some sort of lens cap for them. They are super bright and you can vary the flash program on them from the number of flashes to flashing together or separately. The plus to all this is, I could add up to a total of 4 flashers to my plane.

Wild Bill

No bet…   Hahaha!

Thanks guys. This Kitfox owner must have operated off a runway with plenty of room. Our conversation was so short I didn't think to ask.

You will need to keep us informed on the conversion of the Yamaha engine to gearbox and installation in the aircraft!  OR ELSE!  )  Jim Chuk

Just one more added point - this is coming from a builder who is making flaps and ailerons - remember your student pilot days, when they told you to make crosswind landings with little or no flaps - the flaperons do inhibit the roll control somewhat, as compared to full-deflection ailerons - so you don't want to deflect the flaperons much in crosswind landings.

EDMO

I will almost bet that if Doug Holly reads this, he will quote the MIL-SPEC for the approved grease!

EDMO

Looks like I will keep my eyes open for a C box, then consider selling the 582 and e box that I have now, the Yamaha puts out about 120hp at about the same weight as the 582, at least close enough I can get away with using it. I have always been just a little nervous about using the 2 stroke engine and I just picked up a 2006 Yamaha snowmobile with 6,000 miles for $3000 and 7,000 miles shocks and hyfaxes are shot, but the engine is still in perfect condition.

There are lots of boat trailers with twisted off axles that would counter the idea that grease does not dissolve in water…  

I use a synthetic automotive grease on my wheel bearings.  I repack mine in the spring every year when I take off my skis.  I have seen the start of milky, water contaminated, grease in mine from heavy snow ops, so it is possible.

As Ed says, they don't add much drag, but do add a ton of lift and slow the stall speed.  They are very effective for landing and taking off short.  (On my Model IV Kitfox I am rigged to 26º down at full deflection.)  If you think about their position and function, they make the wing an under cambered wing when deployed as flaps.  

With the advantage of  the flapperon still being in high pressure, high flow air even when the wing is fully stalled.  EG- you still have full aileron roll control through the stall.

There is a subtle genius to the Junkers style flapperon as a control surface.

For the reliability and proven power, the weight of a 680 is an easy trade off for me.  Plus the weight in the back of the plane helps it fly better.

I could skip the doughnuts or a couple cheeseburgers and take the same amount of weight off the pilot.  (but I probably won't)

I'm sorry but I'm not in competition for the Valdez trophy, a couple of pounds doesn't mean enough to me to compromise the safety of my plane.

Jon,

     I think any good thick axle grease will do - I have heard some say to use the "high-temperature" grease for auto disk brakes, but don't think our aluminum wheels could get that hot.

     Others have suggested the White Lithium grease "because it is waterproof" - I have never seen a grease that would dissolve in water.

     I remember a red or cherry-colored grease at one time, but cant remember what it was for.

EDMO

The guys in Alaska, and others I guess, with short runways, sandbars, etc, use them regularly - I think they are about 1/2 as effective as flaps for lift - hardly any drag compared to a Cessna with 40 degree flaps.

EDMO - "Foxy Flapper"

Hey Leni, we have used Kydex for various interior items for about 11 years now in our interior business. We now only use it for things that are too  hard to make out of aluminum (weird shapes). The reason is weight. I know it seems like you would save weight going with plastic over aluminum, but I have found that I can always make an interior part lighter with aluminum. We only use 2024 T3 which of course is one of the stiffer alloys that is commonly available (way better than 6061 T6).

I think the next step to save weight over 2024 T3 might be some type of sandwich construction with carbon fiber. I'm thinking of this in my baggage. CF (with resin) weighs close to the same as aluminum, but it's stronger. The tough part is that if the CF layer facing the baggage area is too thin it might not be durable enough if you throw something into the baggage area even if it would be plenty strong enough to hold the load. I'm also thinking of making a tough Cordura bag for the baggage area instead. I think that would be pretty light.

Edit: forgot to say, that you can get Kydex from several places online (http://www.professionalplastics.com/), but I don't know what would be best for Alaska to avoid expensive shipping. Many plastics suppliers stock it or can get it though.

I happened to meet a guy at Oshkosh that owns a Kitfox (nobody at our get together), and he was saying that he rarely uses the flaperons. When he does it's more for trimming the plane for cruise. I've only flown planes with flaps. How useful are the flaperons on these planes?

This is on my Avid Mark IV.  I have finished painting the main gear and will be assembling the axle, wheel and breaks.  What type of grease should be used on the axle bearings?  Is auto axle grease OK?.

Jon

Test Post - the 680 battery is the most used.

EDMO

Looks like it is now working for me.

Ed

Jack, Where did you get the Kydex and what thickness did you use?  I want to replace my Aluminum baggage with the Kydex as I think I can save some weight there. 

I weighted mine on bathroom scales originally... When I broke down and had it weighed on certified scales I was a little tore up that they showed ~40 pounds heavier than the bathroom scales did.. YIKES.. Of course, since then I have gone to bigger tires etc and I think I have added weight not taken it off.. yes, on the airplane too

At any rate, congrats on getting it done, now lets get ya out flying again Mr.! 

Willis,

It turned out heavier than a lead sled.  Empty weight= 841 lb.s,  empty CG= 10.9,  Most aft CG= 15.36. Most forward CG= 12.58,  Randy and I thought about it for a while and figures that the kydex interior and the plastic fuel tanks inside the fiberglass were the things that made it heavier than his.Plus.  We just used three bathroom scales to weigh it and there could be some error there.  With  normal loads though, it should be right in the ballpark CG wise. 

Jack