Activity Stream

No problem Chris. I'm glad you found a solution. Can we expect some updates on your build thread 

Ed, I'd be happy to give you the cowl if we could figure out an easy way to get it to you.

Thanks for the info - I really don't see how the brace tube between the struts could make any difference -  The data would be nice to have before I weld my new struts - what would be the reason for thicker walls on the brace tube???

I wonder what size  brace tubes are on the Magnum.  What size are Magnum struts?

Some struts don't even have a brace tube.   Some wings only have 1 strut - some have none!  I don't remember what the Taylorcraft had - been a while since I got up close to one.

EdMO

Ed, the differences between the 1050 and 1200 are subtle, but there are three major ones:

1 - Lift struts are 7/8" diameter on the 1050 and 1" on the 1200

2 - The tube between the lift strut attachments was increased in wall thickness (I don't remember the details)

3 - The rudder and vertical fin are 10" taller on the 1200 over the 1050.

The funny thing on the lift strut differences is the rod end bearings (adjustment at the wing) are the same on both and these are the weak link in that chain.

Well those are interesting pictures Doug, what´s that? eurofox? aerotrek? I thought, making the ribs on aluminium and riveting them to the spar was more easy than glue and plywood, but then again, the AVID/FK wings are one of the most easy to build wings ever.

Regards

Dimi3

Luke and Ed-

I was able to verify that a MKIV cheek radiator type cowl bottom will indeed work with the Fat Avid cowl top that I have. So Luke my direction has changed and I will not need your cowl set. Therefore you and Ed can work something out. Many thanks for the offer though Luke. It was greatly appreciated! 

I think I have a lead on a MKIV cowl bottom too, so hopefully everything will work out.

What makes the difference between the KF 1050 and the 1200 GW?  I seem to remember that one Kitfox was limited to 1050 because it had the 503 engine.

Nice looking X-TriPacer

EDMO

Looks like a very nice machine. Are you leaving the flying business or just upgrading?

I bought a bigger plane, the Kitfox is a bit short of space for camping gear. I bought this 1959 Piper PA-22/20 with a seaplane door, leading edge cuff and extended wings, it should be a decent bush plane. Won't be quite as economical to operate as the Kitfox, but if I take out the back seat it should be able to haul a lot of camping gear.

I can't say with 100% certainty that it was made to fit a MKIV. That is my understanding though. The guy I bought the plane from got it from another guy that was going to build the plane with an O-200. The first guy had purchased this cowl to use for this purpose (MKIV with O-200). That's all I know 

Tonight I am supposed to get (borrow) a MKIV cowl bottom to see if it will mate up with the Fat Avid Cowl top I have. I will report back tomorrow with a picture or two. Luke this may have an impact on whether I will need your cowl set or not.

And to make sure, Luke the cowl set in the pictures was made to fit a MKIV airframe?

Looks like a very nice machine. Are you leaving the flying business or just upgrading?

Doug,

     I understand what you have shown - I am not debating it.   However, like you were saying, changing ribs can be a real pain if your tanks don't fit - His Avid tanks may give him trouble with real Kitfox 4 ribs, or Kitfox tanks may not fit Avid ribs because of the spar hole location in the ribs.  He needs to use the rib hole location which makes his tanks fit.

     I am not afraid of the modified undercamber ribs - The NASA rib design turned out to be a dud, and they are supposed to be smarter than me!  Just look at how many "bad" designed ribs that have flown without failure.

     Harry Riblett even recommended doing that same modification to the undercambered ribs, and even suggested using his 35 inch rib pattern to replace the original Kitfox shorter ribs.  His letter and drawing and dimensions were posted on our "Files and Forms" section.

EDMO

Even the Clark Y rib, like on early Pipers, with a flat bottom, should be an improvement in cruise over the Eppler Avid and early Kitfox undercambered rib.  Barnaby Wainfain published an excellent little book on rib designs.

EDMO

Doug,

     I believe he has good HH wing ribs - The only difference I have seen in the top profile is that my early Kitfox rib had just a tiny bit higher curve on the top - should give more lift?  I think his easiest, but maybe not perfect way to go, would be modifying what he has and he doesn't have to buy flaperons if he sticks with the Avid modified ribs.

EdMO

Well Ed, I'm not an aeronautical engineer so I can't say what effect changing any one or multiple combination of characteristics to the HH airfoil will have. My comments are limited to trying to modify the Avid HH rib airfoil to mimic the KF 4-7 rib airfoil exactly. I'll leave the 'close enough', mix 'n match stuff and test flights to others.

I think you might be surprised at how different the two airfoils actually are, it's not just "a tiny bit more curve on the top". The top airfoil, the lower airfoil, the rear spar hole location and leading edge are all notably different, as are the leading edge and capstrip width. I think modifying HH ribs into KF 4-7 rib clones would be a LOT of work. IMHO, it would be easier to just route out a new set.

Some more pics that might be useful...

These show a KF4-7 rib against an Avid 'transitional' rib (speed rib lower profile with HH upper profile). The special transitional rib is used to mate Rib #1 on an Avid Speed wing or Aerobat to the butt rib on the fuse). Avid rib has oval cutouts in the web, KF rib has truss like cutouts. Clearly, the top airfoil surface of the Avid HH/STOL rib is quite a bit different than the KF4-7 Riblett airfoil. Even though it doesn't show well in the pic, the Avid capstrip actually sits directly on the spar. Capstrip on the KF rib sits ~1/4" above the KF rib. While it might sound insignificant, it created huge issues when I used the old Skystar slip-in wing tanks in my Avid Mk-IV HH wing.

These pics show the underside difference between the KF4-7 rib and my A+ butt rib (Avid's HH/STOL top and bottom airfoil profile).

HTH

^ That's what I understood too. And, unless something changed, I believe both Skystar and KF had extruded aluminum stiffeners for the .065" spars only, not .083" spars. According to Steve Winder, Avid and [old] Airdale were able to source extruded aluminum stiffener material that fit the .083" thick spar tube at one time, but it was so expensive given the small amounts ordered that they dropped it. I've never heard of or seen a definitive source since then.

Being near Neanderthal, I had no idea that it took so long to download a video - now I appreciate them even more.

Don't look for any of them from me - I probably couldn't turn the camera on! 

EdMO

Kitfox Model IV-1050, built in 1995, 357TTAF, Speedster tail with larger rudder and electric trim, Bush gear, brand new Rotax 912ULS 100HP engine, Ivoprop medium Quick-adjust prop, upgraded panel with Dynon EFIS and EMS, Garmin 695 GPS and dock, Composite Designs LSA Power Panel, Microair radio, no transponder. Asking $35,000, just spent $29,000 on engine and panel. Located in Alberta, Canada. Email rengler@live.ca, Cell (403)896-0551 (Randy)

I'll post some more. It takes about a minute per second of video to upload.

Thanks for the video. I like the part where you look down at the tire and you can see the lakes below you. That's a very pretty area.

Mark,

    If you don't have it already, I will PM and trade cel numbers with you - Thinking I will go Saturday and stay at Holiday Inn near I-57 and hwy 15 that night - look around Sunday and come home - got to read it again and see what is best.

EDMO

Well, reading it again - looks like I may go on Thursday or Friday instead of Saturday.

If I go, I'll send you a PM.  I'll be a not tall, not handsome, not quite as old man with a piper yellow Jack Brown Seaplane base hat on.  And likely a tropical shirt - I like to pretend I'm in Florida even when I'm not.

Mark

Mark,

     Look for me there if I go - U.S. Army on black cap, on a short, ugly old man, and I will try to wear my Blue EAA nametag.

EDMO

I'm thinking about it, but won't know for sure until a day or so before I go.  Probably just fly the Cherokee over.

Mark

Wow - You said "Little"!  Just a few seconds - is that all there is to it?   Sure would like some longer views of where I've been.  "lol"

EdMO

We would be watching a ball game with that fancy TV on your IP!

Ed

I received tubing from Wicks today - ordered it yesterday!

Is anyone going to the LSA meet at Mt. Vernon, Illinois?   The J3 is going to Wisconsin that week, so I might just drive over to the LSA gathering.

EDMO

Here's a little vid of the Livingstone trail in central Yukon. Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0wrbikd8es&feature=youtu.be

My understanding is that Just buys the extruded stiffeners from Kitfox.