Main spar issue????

[Tree top pilot 13]

The spars that were delivered have been sanded in random directions all over from one end to the other on all 4 pcs. One has a welded section running linear to the tube center line...and a couple of small puddles on a couple of the other tubes. I don't think this is airworthy by any means and don't plan to use them. A good friend came to see the project and stated it was probably corrosion on the surface....had no explanation for the weldments. He said it should have a mill finish like all new tubing will have. Your thoughts/Opinions on this? Safety is of utmost importance here in my eyes.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Not usable. Demand replacements, these are unairworthy in any situation. (IMO)

[TheDeltaFox 0]

I'd replace them. I've never seen a weld like that especially running that long on aluminum tubing. Personally i wouldn't trust it.

It looks like theres a lot of scuffing and scratches on the rest of the tubing as well.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Where were these delivered from?

[dholly 718]

W hiskey

T ango

F oxtrot

!!!!

I am simply flabbergasted that Stace (or any kit producer) would let that welded tube out of their shop. There is NO WAY whatsoever that can be considered an airworthy part and I strongly encourage you to demand a new spar. But then, you already knew that. It's a harder call on the other spars without seeing close-up. Some minimal abrasion or scuffing would not necessarily be a complete show-stopper (hell you're supposed to scuff 'em up to glue the ribs), particularly if you were planning on alodining them, but you want absolutely no dents, nicks or scratches [many will disagree with this... but the rule of thumb in the old Avid manuals was... nothing deep enough to even slightly catch a fingernail] and -zero- corrosion. Corrosion can be tough to identify with aluminum, it's not just pitting but also microgalvanic and intergranular corrosion. If the entire length of each spar has been sanded, that would highly unusual (if not unheard of) for a tubing or kit manufacturer and completely unnecessary. If you and your local experts (A&P, EAA Tech Counselor perhaps?) believe that may be unsafe or an attempt to remove or mask corrosion, you are well within your rights to demand replacements. Sorry to see this hassle but, IMHO, you will never find enjoyment building, flying or selling an aircraft with these issues unresolved. Again, really surprised as I thought both the company and the man had a decent reputation. Keep us posted.

[Tree top pilot 13]

OK I have left an email for Stace to contact me as soon as they return. I have finished welding the fusalage today and grinding a few places that would make an unhappy place for fabric to pull over. There were a couple of welds that were unfinished and I buttoned them up with my Miller maxstar 150. The one longeron was only welded half the way round. I am also thinking of putting another bolt tube for the tailwheel spring. Considering a header tank as well. I think I can make an aluminum 5 gallon unit that will fit under the cluster joint up front similar to the Cub's tank residence. As for the spars...they are sanded good and rough...like 120 grit, possibly emory cloth pulled around and worked over. I have no trust in them for the intended purpose. I can see it is going to take me a while to get all this straightened out. Been around too many Cubs and Champs to not make it safe and airworthy. I too am taken by surprise by all this. I just have to make everything right now as the moneys have changed hands. Lots of work before I get to build anything. Looks like the spar tubes are near $9.00/Ft prior to shipping. Should have had a nice , smooth mill finish. I don't have a build manual,fabric, and a few other bits that I am told are being shipped to me. Not pissed over this, but disappointed in what I was given....10 hours into the project so far....nothing built as of yet.

Edited 17 Dec 2011 by Tree top pilot

[Tree top pilot 13]

Are all the spar attatch fittings this rough or am I being picky? I do a lot of work involved with racing fabrication and this does not meet our shop standards, nor aviation standards. I think I am being a little too picky, but it is my heiny in this plane. I will debur and clean up the edges if I don't just remake them. This thing will be almost type certified when I am finished! LOL ! Functional parts can have cosmetic benefits to boot.

Edited 17 Dec 2011 by Tree top pilot

[Benbell4140 0]

Are all the spar attatch fittings this rough or am I being picky? I do a lot of work involved with racing fabrication and this does not meet our shop standards, nor aviation standards. I think I am being a little too picky, but it is my heiny in this plane. I will debur and clean up the edges if I don't just remake them. This thing will be almost type certified when I am finished! LOL ! Functional parts can have cosmetic benefits to boot.

I can't imagine any factory to ever let crappy work like that out the door and expect to stay in business.. That is horrible!!! I guess they just don't care about safety or liability at all..

[C5Engineer 1170]

Are all the spar attatch fittings this rough or am I being picky? I do a lot of work involved with racing fabrication and this does not meet our shop standards, nor aviation standards. I think I am being a little too picky, but it is my heiny in this plane. I will debur and clean up the edges if I don't just remake them. This thing will be almost type certified when I am finished! LOL ! Functional parts can have cosmetic benefits to boot.

Those welds look like something a freshman made in shop class! I certainly hope the rest of your kit is not of the same quality. Did this come from RidgeRunner?

[AvdFlyr 0]

Please tell us where this junk came from. I have never seeen such poor quality in any kit. There is absolutely no way I would use any of the spars or the spar attach fittings. What you have appears to be pure junk.

[dholly 718]

Are all the spar attatch fittings this rough or am I being picky? I do a lot of work involved with racing fabrication and this does not meet our shop standards, nor aviation standards. I think I am being a little too picky, but it is my heiny in this plane. I will debur and clean up the edges if I don't just remake them. This thing will be almost type certified when I am finished! LOL ! Functional parts can have cosmetic benefits to boot.

Spar attach fittings? Sorry, but I'm having a hard time understanding exactly which parts these are. Kinda looks like the lower lift strut tube ends that connects to the fuse attach brackets, and... I don't know wth that other jagged crap is. Is that a spar tube end, or piece of spar tubing that you're supposed to cut and fabricate the spar attach doublers out of? My doubler material was supplied separately and just needed cut and shaped to fit.

Regarding the welds, I think in terms of safety first then cosmetic aesthetics. For sure those welds look like ass, but if the penetration is sufficient they may be perfectly safe and functional. Perhaps they can be cleaned up a bit and you can live with them? I dunno. Even if they are safe and functional, if all the welds on the fuse are of similar cosmetics, it would bug me personally. I've attached a few pics from my Avid+ kit for comparison, ie. lift strut ends, fuse cluster and stitch welds, and I considered those weld cosmetics a bit rough. Weld quality on the 4 planes I've owned from best to worst: KF 4-1200 | Avid Mk-IV | KF 3 | Avid+, although the last two were pretty close. Every one looked about 200% better than what you've shown though, which really does look like shoddy hurried workmanship to me. That you are also finding unfinished fuselage welds and have been given spars in the condition that they are just screams of poor quality control, plain and simple IMO.

Overall, based on your experience, one really has to wonder what's going on at RidgeRunner these days. This extended economic slowdown has undoubtedly hit the small LSA kit suppliers hard, and I suspect many are barely struggling through. Regardless, if they are going to continue taking the folks hard-earned money and putting out product, they damn well better not do so at the expense of industry safety standards or quality control.

[akflyer 1427]

Holy eph me running.. Send them back! on his dime! As a QC manager with 25+ yrs of welding quality control, I would pull the welding certs of said welder and send him packing. There is NO excuse for that kind of workmanship coming out of a factory. I understand there may be a little bit of clean up on parts that a rough cut at the factory, but holy shit, that is not rough cut, that was chewed off my an aligator with a bad tooth!

:nc: < no chug for that kinda workmanship!

[Tree top pilot 13]

I have left e-mails and phone messages....no reply as of yet...but it has been 16 December since the first call to them. I think I may just have to make my own lift strut attatch fittings. After calculating the Young's modulous of materials and the shear tension on the rivets and spar juction I think a slight redesign is warranted. The welds on the fuse look good enough to trust and my I/A is coming to look it over. Most of the local guys say it will be fine..the fusalage. But as for the wing spars...not so much of a "Gee whiz Wally...wait 'til mom see's this". OK I have revealed my age. I just think that it is possible that the unknowing could be at a serious risk with issues like this. I am sure there is an explanation. I have waited for four months to get this and here I am with it. If you can't make contact with someone to work out a resolve , it seems I have to pick it up and make it right. The welds you posted above look good to me....and the parts are nice and cleanly cut-dressed-deburred. I have already started to think that I could have built this if I had the measurements or and old fuse to go from. I have built jigs for a lot of things....no big twig there. Just wish that things would have turned out better. The spars are .065" wall with no stiffening devices. You guys think I should fab up something Kitfox style and install it?

So as it stands...it is mine to work with. Hopefully they will own up to these issues soon....in the meantime I have to move on or it will never get started on the route of completion. And we just had about $6K of tube stock come from Charlie....guess I will be calling him up again.

Edited 19 Dec 2011 by Tree top pilot

[Tree top pilot 13]

This is one of the cars we build. Will get close up pix of welds. All 4130 tig welds. Car will run in the low 4 second area in the 1/8th mile.

[akflyer 1427]

I have left e-mails and phone messages....no reply as of yet.... The spars are .065" wall with no stiffening devices. You guys think I should fab up something Kitfox style and install it?

So as it stands...it is mine to work with. Hopefully they will own up to these issues soon....in the meantime I have to move on or it will never get started on the route of completion. And we just had about $6K of tube stock come from Charlie....guess I will be calling him up again.

My local supplier can get the spar material so you may be time ahead to just call around and get a price quote on the material. I dont see where it would hurt to put a plywood insert in the spar like the Avid / kitfox used.