FAA Registration

[allonsye 85]

I've been remiss on getting my Avid registered in my name since purchasing it a year ago. Being not airworthy yet I'm figuring no big deal. 

 

I'm considering registering it LSA. Anyone re-register a homebuilt experimental as an LSA? I'm not finding guidance on the FAA site which one could surmise mean no can do.  Guess I need to seek out an FAA inspector on this.  The gal on the line when I called said since it's been already registered it can't be changed but then she noted that it was registered over 20 yrs ago and wasn't sure all of a sudden. 

[EDMO 1078]

I am thinking that the LSA certification, whether it is S-LSA or E-LSA, is only for factory-built airplanes.   I believe the maintenance rules are much stricter than the Experimental, Amateur-built certification, requiring use of exact factory replacement parts and procedures.   Some have re-certified S-LSA planes to E-LSA for more lenient rules, but I cant explain any of that.

I don't know why anyone would want to register an Experimental plane that way.

Doug Holly probably knows more about these classifications than anyone else, since he owns an LSA.

If you are thinking about the Sport Pilot limitations of flying "Light Sport Aircraft" weighing no more than 1320 lbs, this certification is not needed.   I would keep the plane certified as EAB and enjoy the freedoms it gives.

At least you should check to see if the OPLIMS (Operational Limitations) on your plane are compliant with the current OPLIMS as published by the FAA (Originated by the EAA) which let you do major modifications with only a logbook entry and do not require a new Airworthiness Inspection each time you change something, but changing OPLIMS now will require another Airworthiness Inspection. 

So, unless you are planning major modifications to your plane, I would just leave things alone and register it as-is in your name and fly and enjoy.

EDMO

Edited 2 Oct 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[allonsye 85]

Thanks Ed. Nice lucid response, you're admonition makes perfect sense.

 

I'll need refresh on the regs. I was looking to make the inspections less stringent and eliminate flt phys to maintain pilots cert.

 

As it is, my ins co will require 5 hrs of dual in this make and model as I get back into the air.

 

I shouldn't be too worried about maint sign-offs since I hold an A&P.

 

Thx,

Paul

[1avidflyer 1983]

It's not the category the plane is registered in that makes it sport pilot eligible.  It's the weight, speed, and number of seats that make it a plane a sport pilot can fly.  Maximum weight 1320 lbs. maximum speed @ VH 138 MPH, and 2 seats.  Other things come into it as well, no inflight prop, ect. but those are the big three.  Jim Chuk

[EDMO 1078]

Paul,

     I am A&P also - the only thing different about the new OPLIMS is the only thing necessary is a log book entry for major changes, rather than having to get another airworthiness inspection, but again, you have to have the airworthiness inspection to change the OPLIMS, and you have to have a DAR or FAA inspector to do those inspections.   Fly, Fix, and Enjoy!

EDMO

[Guest]

The only reason I can see for registering a plane as ELSA is that owners subsequent to the original builder can obtain a repairman certificate. I don't know if this still happens or got closed off with the "transition" period, but my Fat Avid was registered as ELSA by the original builder. I took a weekend long ELSA repairman class and can now carry a little card issued by the FAA similar to my pilots license that allows me to be repairman on that particular tail number airplane only.....pretty cool.

 

My MKIV and Magnum were both EAB and had to be condition inspected by an A&P or IA annually. With the card, I can do that myself once I get the thing up and going......If that happens in my lifetime. Sometimes it seems like it won't! )

[allonsye 85]

^{Making the aircraft attractive to a non-A&P prospective buyer was the main reason I thought it worth switching to ELSA.  But as Ed pointed out, is it really worth the hassle. And besides last owner installed IF adj prop. That would have to be eliminated before the DAR inspection.} 

Edited 3 Oct 2014 by allonsye

[EDMO 1078]

Thanks for the info ChrisB - I didn't know that another owner of an ELSA could get the repairman certificate for that plane.

The original builder of an EAB can get the repairmans certificate without going to school.   Maintenance and repairs can be made by anyone and entered into the logbook.  If you don't have the repairman certificate, you need an A&P to do the annual condition inspection and sign it off.

Paul, the IFA prop is not legal on Sport Pilot Certificate - only fixed pitch or ground adjustable are legal.

EDMO

Edited 3 Oct 2014 by Ed In Missouri

[Av8r3400 1179]

E-LSA is not something that you can register as.  The only way to do it now is to build a kit that is produced as an S-LSA (Factory produced), you must build exactly as the factory does (panel, engine, all equipment - no deviations).   This provision must be supported by the factory.  Vans does it with the RV12.  I don't know if Kitfox does.  Avid is gone, you they are SOL.

 

E-LSA allows for the builder to construct less than the 51% mandated for experimental amateur built.  Therefore you can not have the builders certificate, you can only get the repairman's license after you take the 16 hour class.

[akflyer 1427]

By the regs, if it's ever had an ifa prop it will never again be sport pilot legal.... burn any log book that shows an ifa installed and make new books if you want it legal as light sport.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Placarded as electrically ground adjustable.

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

Another angle that could come back to bite you with an inflight prop is this.  Changing the prop is considered a major change and as such the FAA is supposed to be notified of that change.  If that notification has occurred, then they have paperwork showing that the plane at one time had an inflight prop.  You can get a copy of all the paper work they have on that plane, they will send it to you for about 10  cents a page (real cheap).  Something to think about......  Jim Chuk 

[EDMO 1078]

Since there is no TCDS on experimentals - How would the FAA know if the prop had been changed?  Check the logbooks and get the copies they have to make sure.

EDMO

[allonsye 85]

Great points guys! I thought about the prop thing already. I didn't notice the change to the IFA IVO in the logs which the previous owner/builder had done, but it's been awhile since I've been in them -- need to check that. Regardless,I seriously doubt that he notified the Feds. As Ed points out - no TCDS one experimental.

[EDMO 1078]

Paul, and others,

     Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought the rules for experimental were the same as factory-built planes as far as log books are concerned:   I mean that there should be a log book for the plane, another for the engine, and another for the prop.

     When I bought my Kitfox 2, there was only a log book for the plane.   I planned on having all 3 log books for the one I am building - Is that required, or not?

EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

If you want to order the paperwork the FAA has on your plane, go to the FAA homepage   www.faa.gov/  and on the right side of the page just above center you will see a box and just above the box it says in bold letters   Look Up N Numbers.  Type your N # in the box and that will take you to a page that shows info on your plane.  On the left side of that page near the bottom and below the heading  Engine Model, you will see a link that you can click on.  That will take you to a page where you can order the paperwork that the FAA has on your plane.  As far as notifying the FAA about a prop change goes, that is covered in your operating limitations.   The FAA considers a prop change to be a major change.  This has nothing to do with TCDSs.  I think a lot of guys ignore this notification requirement or are perhaps unaware of it.  Jim Chuk

[Av8r3400 1179]

Neither of my planes show any info on the prop on the FAA website.

I know of no LS or small experimental plane in my circle of friends who has a prop log book. Sometimes the engine and airframe even share a book. This may be at the discretion of the inspector.

This may be different if you are running a complex cs prop with a governor and all the related equipment.

Edited 7 Oct 2014 by Av8r3400

[1avidflyer 1983]

When you say none of your airplanes shows prop info on the FAA website, do you mean the first page you come to when you type in your N #?  That's not where it would be.  When the plane is first registered engine and prop info is listed on that paperwork (form 8130-6 Application for US Airworthiness Certificate).  The FAA has that paperwork and you can get a copy of it by going to the link I mentioned in my previous post.  Jim Chuk

[allonsye 85]

^{Thanks Jim for posting the link. I'm ordering a copy of my Avids certification docs just I'm missing something.  Worth the 4 bucks redeemed.}