bing 54 carb vent lines

[lv2plyguitar 172]

Just started my 582 on avid flyer today. Fuel pouring out of vent lines (overflow) on bing 54 carbs. Needle is seating correctly and floats work freely. No debris. Airscrew Performance told me that the carbs need to be set level because the Avid flys with the tail a little low anyways. If the tail is sitting on the ground and the carbs are set in line with engine rather than level with ground, then fuel will overflow according to Airscrew Performance. What are your thoughts on this fix. With the tail sitting on the ground i set the carbs level with ground. Sure enough that fixed it. What concerns me is when in flight what happens if I do a steep turn, descent, etc. and the carbs are no longer level. Dont want an in flight fire. Also, is it okay to have longer vent line on the carbs that extend below the muffler.

Thanks

Edited 27 Dec 2012 by Avid Heavy

[C5Engineer 1170]

If everything is stock you have something goin on there. Debris can hide very very well in a Bing 54 and it only takes a microscopic piece to plug up a jet. Pull your float bowls off and turn on your fuel and see if you can stop it by pushing up on the piece the floats move. It's possible to adjust the float bowl height but that involves tweaking the tabs and shouldn't need to be done on an all stock motor. Was it sitting with fuel in it for any period of time?

[1avidflyer 1983]

I think Steve @ airscrew knows a lot about these Rotax engines, but I've never heard about setting the carbs out of level. I run a straight edge accross the tops of the carbs so they are straight with each other. That would of course also make them level if the engine was level. I've never had fuel comming out of the vent lines with the carbs set like I do it. I would recomend checking what the float level is. If I remember right, the fuel level should be 1/2" below the top of the float bowl if you take the bowl off without spilling any gas. I'm sure that's the level on the type 94 I had in my Jabiru, but I also think it is the same on the type 54 used on the 582. Another thing you can do is call Bing's tech assistance and talk to Charlie. He is very helpfull and happy to talk to you. # is 1-620-767-7844 Take care, Jim Chuk

If everything is stock you have something goin on there. Debris can hide very very well in a Bing 54 and it only takes a microscopic piece to plug up a jet. Pull your float bowls off and turn on your fuel and see if you can stop it by pushing up on the piece the floats move. It's possible to adjust the float bowl height but that involves tweaking the tabs and shouldn't need to be done on an all stock motor. Was it sitting with fuel in it for any period of time?

[EDMO 1078]

I got my KF2 out of a beanfield when the 532 had quit - for the 2nd time! - someone had T'd the vent lines together and I figured that this was what caused it to quit - someone said that this was OK to do ??

No problem with the single Holley on my Soob........

ED in MO

[horsepower 24]

I bought my engine used and when I primed it up for the first time both carbs leaked out the vents.Pulled carbs apart and both looked spotless.Put them back together and same thing both leaked.I ordered two carb kits and it solved problem on both carbs.The old needles were hard so probably dried out from sitting.I set my carbs with a straight edge same angle as cylinder head.Randy

[Bandit 286]

I bought my engine used and when I primed it up for the first time both carbs leaked out the vents.Pulled carbs apart and both looked spotless.Put them back together and same thing both leaked.I ordered two carb kits and it solved problem on both carbs.The old needles were hard so probably dried out from sitting.I set my carbs with a straight edge same angle as cylinder head.Randy

Randy,

Do you have your 582 in a SkyRaider 1 or 2?

[lv2plyguitar 172]

I bought my engine used and when I primed it up for the first time both carbs leaked out the vents.Pulled carbs apart and both looked spotless.Put them back together and same thing both leaked.I ordered two carb kits and it solved problem on both carbs.The old needles were hard so probably dried out from sitting.I set my carbs with a straight edge same angle as cylinder head.Randy

I am not sure what is going on with my carbs. Again, according to Steve a Airscrew Performance, if the carbs are not level the floats cannot operate correctly, but that doesnt make sense to me when in the air making turns, climbs and dives. My carbs were spotless as well (brand new) but had sit for a long time so I ordered a rebuild kit from Aircraft Spruce and replaced all that I could. I even tested the carbs by blowing into the inlet and then lifting the two arms on the needle. No air would pass through. It was not until I leveled the carbs with the ground and not the engine that they quit leaking fuel. When the tail dragger is on its rear wheel the engine is at an angle. If the carbs are leveled with the engine they are angled and this is what Steve said was causing them to leak.

I hope some of you will continue to research this. I definately dont want to catch on fire in the air. I never had this problem until I replaced the needle operated by the float arm. I am going to dink with the tab so that the float closes the needle sooner. Let me know if you think that is a bad idea.

Thanks

[1avidflyer 1983]

I would check what the float level is first of all, if it's at the right point, the fuel shouldn't spill out of the carb if it's a bit out of level. If the level was to high, then it probably would. Don't be afraid to call Bing as well. Just reread your post again, and you say the problem started when you replaced the needle. Try putting the old needle back and see if the problem goes away. (but check the float level while you're at it) Take care, Jim Chuk

I am not sure what is going on with my carbs. Again, according to Steve a Airscrew Performance, if the carbs are not level the floats cannot operate correctly, but that doesnt make sense to me when in the air making turns, climbs and dives. My carbs were spotless as well (brand new) but had sit for a long time so I ordered a rebuild kit from Aircraft Spruce and replaced all that I could. I even tested the carbs by blowing into the inlet and then lifting the two arms on the needle. No air would pass through. It was not until I leveled the carbs with the ground and not the engine that they quit leaking fuel. When the tail dragger is on its rear wheel the engine is at an angle. If the carbs are leveled with the engine they are angled and this is what Steve said was causing them to leak.

I hope some of you will continue to research this. I definately dont want to catch on fire in the air. I never had this problem until I replaced the needle operated by the float arm. I am going to dink with the tab so that the float closes the needle sooner. Let me know if you think that is a bad idea.

Thanks

[1avidflyer 1983]

Just to clarify things a bit in case anyone is confused by how I worded things. When I said check the float level, I probably should have said check the float bowl fuel level. Just dug out my Proper Care and Feeding of the Rotax Motor manual, and it says that the fuel level should be 1/2" to 9/16" below the top of the float bowl. Just thinking further on it, even if the float bowl fuel level was to high, the float setting might not be the problem. You said the problem started when you changed the float needle. If the needle was causing a problem, (not sealing properly) as the float bowl fuel level gets higher it presses harder on the float needle. If the extra pressure seals off the needle, fuel stops flowing, but now the fuel level is to high. Jim

I would check what the float level is first of all, if it's at the right point, the fuel shouldn't spill out of the carb if it's a bit out of level. If the level was to high, then it probably would. Don't be afraid to call Bing as well. Just reread your post again, and you say the problem started when you replaced the needle. Try putting the old needle back and see if the problem goes away. (but check the float level while you're at it) Take care, Jim Chuk

[horsepower 24]

Randy,

Do you have your 582 in a SkyRaider 1 or 2?

Its a Super Skyraider 2 with dual controls......

[Av8r_Sed 82]

I had the same experience on my Kitfox III, 582 grey head, 3:1 gearbox and IVO 2 blade 70" medium ground adjust. I must have had the carbs apart a dozen times checking float levels, changing the viton tipped float needles and making sure all passages were cleaned. I also changed out the motor mounts in case the rubber had stiffened with age. Still the gas poured out the vents. Eventually I came to the realization that the inertia of that medium IVO was too much to idle the 582 smoothly. The solution was installing a RK 400 clutch.

It looks like you have the same IVO. Can you try a lower inertia prop for an idle test?

-- Paul S

[lv2plyguitar 172]

I had the same experience on my Kitfox III, 582 grey head, 3:1 gearbox and IVO 2 blade 70" medium ground adjust. I must have had the carbs apart a dozen times checking float levels, changing the viton tipped float needles and making sure all passages were cleaned. I also changed out the motor mounts in case the rubber had stiffened with age. Still the gas poured out the vents. Eventually I came to the realization that the inertia of that medium IVO was too much to idle the 582 smoothly. The solution was installing a RK 400 clutch.

It looks like you have the same IVO. Can you try a lower inertia prop for an idle test?

-- Paul S

Just got it from the horses mouth (Bing Manufacturing) that the carbs must be in a level position or they will leak gas through the overflow. I asked him what prevents it from leaking when in a turn or climb or dive and he said he didnt know but for some reason it works. Weird. My carbs leak no gas at idle until they are tilted out of level.

[C5Engineer 1170]

How come mine don't leak when parked on a 20 degree slope sideways?

[lv2plyguitar 172]

How come mine don't leak when parked on a 20 degree slope sideways?

I dont know. I would call bing and ask them the same question I did. I am not sure I am satisfied with their answer. You should just for giggles loosen one of your carb boots and tilt the carb at like 10 degrees tighten it back up and then start your engine with fuel on and see what it does.

Even in the AVID manual it says to set the carb at level flight.

[1avidflyer 1983]

I just dug up 3 different Rotax 582 and 532 owner's manuals, and also my 170 page overhaul manual for 462,532,582 rotax engines. They all say that the carb or carburators should be set at a right angle to the crankshaft. That ofcourse would make them level if the engine was level. If you have either of these books, look at page 13 of the owner's manual, or page 155 of the overhaul manual. Is is possible that that is what the guy at Bing meant? Did you get the guy's name that you talked to? One time when I called them I got a young guy that didn't know what he was talking about, wasn't really the tech guy, I think he mostly took orders. The guy to talk to there is named Charlie. He knows those carbs inside and out. Take care, Jim Chuk

PS after I posted this message, I looked at it to see it came out okey, and noticed the pictures on the manuals. Carbs are dead level with the engine there as well....

I dont know. I would call bing and ask them the same question I did. I am not sure I am satisfied with their answer. You should just for giggles loosen one of your carb boots and tilt the carb at like 10 degrees tighten it back up and then start your engine with fuel on and see what it does.

Even in the AVID manual it says to set the carb at level flight.

Edited 4 Jan 2013 by Jim Chuk

[Justin 5]

I had the same experience on my Kitfox III, 582 grey head, 3:1 gearbox and IVO 2 blade 70" medium ground adjust. I must have had the carbs apart a dozen times checking float levels, changing the viton tipped float needles and making sure all passages were cleaned. I also changed out the motor mounts in case the rubber had stiffened with age. Still the gas poured out the vents. Eventually I came to the realization that the inertia of that medium IVO was too much to idle the 582 smoothly. The solution was installing a RK 400 clutch.

 

It looks like you have the same IVO. Can you try a lower inertia prop for an idle test?

 

-- Paul S

 

 

okay so I am having the same issue rough idle fuel out vent lines and I just installed a 72 inch ivo not sure if they are the medium blades I was told they were called ultralight plus blades are these also considered mediums thanks justin 

[Av8r_Sed 82]

If you post a clear picture of the prop we can probably identify what you've got.  The medium blades are stout and on first look one might think they're too much for a 582, yet that's what IVO recommends.

Are you coming from a nice working setup and re-propping for better performance?

For me, the clutch turned out to be a good solution and the plusses outweighed the drawbacks.  If you do go that way, know that you'll end up needing to change at least the idle jets to a much smaller size.

[1avidflyer 1983]

The ultralight plus blades have more pitch in them than a standard ultralight IVO blade.  They are not IVO medium blades.  Jim Chuk