LSA /LSP - How do they know?

[EDMO 1078]

Was reading some of the old comments about gross weight and paperwork in the Avid section posted last March -

If no gross weight listed, and it is not on the airworthiness certificate, then how do the ramp inspectors know that you are flying a "legal LSA" when you are flying as a LSP? Weigh the plane? I think I will label mine "LSA" some where in paint, or decals.

What if you had a one-of-a-kind that didnt fit the looks of an Avid or Kitfox or other kitplanes?

Then again, if one was not labeled, and loaded up to excede 1320 lbs, then it could still be flown by a private pilot as an experimental. Hmm, now that I have a 1550 landing gear.........

ED in MO

Edited 2 Dec 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[1avidflyer 1983]

Couple of things pop out in my mind. You are required to carry a current weight and balance form in the airplane, and that should show gross weight. The other is the Data plate on the tail of the plane. That should show gross weight also. Then again, maybe I'm all wet! LOL Take care, Jim Chuk

Was reading some of the old comments about gross weight and paperwork in the Avid section posted last March -

If no gross weight listed, and it is not on the airworthiness certificate, then how do the ramp inspectors know that you are flying a "legal LSA" when you are flying as a LSP? Weigh the plane? I think I will label mine "LSA" some where in paint, or decals.

What if you had a one-of-a-kind that didnt fit the looks of an Avid or Kitfox or other kitplanes?

Then again, if one was not labeled, and loaded up to excede 1320 lbs, then it could still be flown by a private pilot as an experimental. Hmm, now that I have a 1550 landing gear.........

ED in MO

[EDMO 1078]

Couple of things pop out in my mind. You are required to carry a current weight and balance form in the airplane, and that should show gross weight. The other is the Data plate on the tail of the plane. That should show gross weight also. Then again, maybe I'm all wet! LOL Take care, Jim Chuk

Jim,

I got the "kit" of stuff from EAA, and it contains a skinny (1" x 4") data plate, and dont think there is a space for GW on it - guess it is legal? Sure dont look like the bigger ones I have seen on planes.

Got to look at W/B sheet again to check on that.

I'm sure we will get some other opinions on this before long.

Thanks,

ED in MO

[Av8r3400 1179]

This is a common discussion.

A legal LSA does not have a 1320 "gross" weight. The FARs specify that it has a 1320# Max Takeoff Weight. This is not just semantics. Gross weight is part of design and construction. MTOW is an operational weight limitation.

The place where this must be shown is in the Weight and balance data. These documents must show proper calculations for no more than 1320# (1450# amphibian).

The data plate does not need to (and should not) show any "gross" weight information.

[EDMO 1078]

This is a common discussion.

A legal LSA does not have a 1320 "gross" weight. The FARs specify that it has a 1320# Max Takeoff Weight. This is not just semantics. Gross weight is part of design and construction. MTOW is an operational weight limitation.

The place where this must be shown is in the Weight and balance data. These documents must show proper calculations for no more than 1320# (1450# amphibian).

The data plate does not need to (and should not) show any "gross" weight information.

Guess that about answers all my questions.

Thanks,

ED in MO

[1avidflyer 1983]

The Data tag I was refering to is the FAA aircraft name plate. Part # B4007 in the Wag-Aero catolog. It measures 3" X 4 1/4". Top of plate says Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft. Below that are where you list: Model, next line: Serial No Empty Wt, next line: Date of Mfg, Gross Wt next line Engine Hp. Then it says Built By then next line Name, next line Address, next line City and State. That plate comes with the kit I believe, and if not you can buy it for $5.00 Take care, Jim Chuk

Guess that about answers all my questions.

Thanks,

ED in MO

Edited 3 Dec 2012 by Jim Chuk

[dholly 718]

The data tag under the H.S. on my KF4-1200 is one of those 2-line abbreviated versions. It has Model and S/N# if I recall correctly. I do have the standard large data plate fastened to the firewall, viewable (readable?) from outside the cockpit. I like being a little different.

Edited 3 Dec 2012 by dholly

[Russ. 7]

The data tag under the H.S. on my KF4-1200 is one of those 2-line abbreviated versions. It has Model and S/N# if I recall correctly. I do have the standard large data plate fastened to the firewall, viewable (readable?) from outside the cockpit. I like being a little different. ;)src="http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif">

On being different, mission accomplished.

[akflyer 1427]

Not sure what is up with the emoticons. I will work on it tonight or tomorrow.

There is NO need or requirement to put the "gross" weight on the data tag. As Doug pointed out, ELSA has a max take off weight of 1320# on wheels. Yes, there are other requirements to be met but experimentals DO NOT have a max gross weight recorded anyplace other than what you choose to put on the weight and balance.

Yes, we do have a member on this site who has his 1550 kitfox registered as an LSA. This member is an IA and got it approved through his FSDO. It can be done and it is one of the major reasons this site came into being. The "discussions" of this subject on another site got a few of us banned because the nay sayers and yes men were not smart enough to read the actual regs and the intent of them, versus what the goober at EAA thought would be what they meant. It is spelled out in black and white in the regs what constitutes a light sport aircraft.

[EDMO 1078]

Not sure what is up with the emoticons. I will work on it tonight or tomorrow.

There is NO need or requirement to put the "gross" weight on the data tag. As Doug pointed out, ELSA has a max take off weight of 1320# on wheels. Yes, there are other requirements to be met but experimentals DO NOT have a max gross weight recorded anyplace other than what you choose to put on the weight and balance.

Yes, we do have a member on this site who has his 1550 kitfox registered as an LSA. This member is an IA and got it approved through his FSDO. It can be done and it is one of the major reasons this site came into being. The "discussions" of this subject on another site got a few of us banned because the nay sayers and yes men were not smart enough to read the actual regs and the intent of them, versus what the goober at EAA thought would be what they meant. It is spelled out in black and white in the regs what constitutes a light sport aircraft.

:BC:/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>

From what I understand in the regs - The "manufacturer / builder" puts the gross weight on his project: Guess you could build a flying boxcar and list it as 1320 LSA if you have the weight and balance to prove that your MTOW is 1320 or less.

For mine - The two outside tanks with 24 gallons of gas can only be filled for solo flight, and will be tagged that way - The W/B sheets will have to be seperate for both solo and dual flights.

ED in MO

p.S. The "Nay-sayers" are the reason I am on this site and enjoy the company - we dont all march to the same music, but we are agreeably tolerant of different tunes. I have learned a lot from the "chain-saw drivers" !

:lol:/>/>/>/>/>/> (tired of seeing that? - well, thats the only one I can remember) :lol:/>/>/>/>/>/>

edit: The EAA 1x4 tag is probably all you need to be legal - but seems like in my poor memory, that there was at one time, a DOD, or DOT? tag, which required a lot more info, or was it DEA? I dont worry about it, because I dont cross borders (yet) and dont haul dope, except for my prescriptions.

ED

Edited 3 Dec 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[SuberAvid 617]

Don't put more on your data plate than you have to in my opinion; unless you just enjoy inviting that kind of naysayer discussion with someone on the ramp.

[EDMO 1078]

Don't put more on your data plate than you have to in my opinion; unless you just enjoy inviting that kind of naysayer discussion with someone on the ramp.

TOTALLY AGREE!

ED in MO