Airstreaks versus ATV tires

[herman pahls 9]

I am tempted to get some 12 inch Matco wheels and 27" tall and 8 and 1/2 wide ATV tires for my Kitfox so I can land on some of the gravel/big rock bars that my son lands on with his 31" Bushwheels.

It appears that Greg Swindal from Ohio Bush Planes was using similar tires on his Rans S-7 in some of his U-tube videos.

Two ATV tires would cost about $200. versus the $2100 to $2600 cost of the 26 or 29 inch Airstreaks.

Does anyone know how well the tall ATV tires on 12" Matco wheels will handle rocks in comparison to Airstreaks?

A tire on a 12" wheel would have less side wall than a similar sized tire on a 6" wheel.

Does anyone have experience with taller 27" ATV tires?

Of course my son says that Bushwheels are the only way to go.

Thanks Herman

[C5Engineer 1170]

Herman,

I discussed that set up with Swingle while he was here visiting. Greg didn't like that set up and ended up with Bushwheels in the end. What wheels are you running now? I have only not landed something once or twice with my 8" wheel 21" nanco set up. I think with anything much bigger your going to really start noticing the drag. With the 12" wheels and 27's your going to be adding 15-20lbs as well. Personally I like to have something as a limiting factor to keep myself out of trouble. That once or twice I didn't land because I thought it looked pretty rough I had no business being there in the first place

[akflyer 1427]

If you are going to go tot the trouble of the lager wheels and tires, bit the bullet and get the 26" airstreaks. Randy Tylor did the larger ATV wheels with his avid and ended up going to the bushwheels. If that is the type of flying you really want to do, there is no substitute. I am wrestling with the same issue right now. 90% of my flying is on the full lotus floats, but I want those BW for the other 10% I do so I can go play with Randy on some gravel bars up in his neck of the woods.

[SuberAvid 617]

I didn't go with the 27" ATV tires on 12" rims but I did do the 25" ATV tires on 9" rims. After I cut off all the tread they ended up about 23.5". These were pretty soft and light ATV tires at 2 ply so they were flexible and worked pretty well; a step above the 21" Nanco type that I also have. The 26" bush wheels on 6" rims are about an equal step up the ladder above these ATV tires in ability to obsorb rocks and roll over stuff. I don't know how the 27" ATV tires will work but based on my experience I would make the following observation: they are much heavier built than the 2 ply ones I used; most I have seen are 6 ply and have probably 2" of tread diameter. By the time you cut the tread off they will be close to 25" with a 12 " rim vs. the 9" rim I used. I think they have the diameter but will be much less flexible and have much less sidewall absorbing ability so I doubt they would work much better than the 25x9 2 ply ATV tires I used. They are pretty good and I still have mine around just in case I wipe out one of my bushwheels so not a bad alternative but just not quite equal. You also have to consider the cost of the wheels, welding and machining the brake tabs, drilling the wheels, and finding a set of hubs, bearings, seals, if you don't already have that setup. I think I ended up with about $600 to $700 in everything above the cost of the ATV tires.

[herman pahls 9]

I appreciate the imput on Airstreaks vs ATV tires.

The ATV tires I am getting from Fullerton Sand Tires in Los Angeles are 2 ply and weigh 11-12 pounds each without wheels and are 27" tall and 8" wide.

I have the Matco brake system where the rotor attaches to the hub and not to the wheel as I have seen some Kitfox's with so it is a ~$500.00 bolt on experiment.

I agree that Airstreaks would be ideal but I am looking more for the increase in diameter than the rock absorbing feature of the Bushwheels.

I just installed the Matco 8" wide tailwheel for $250 to replace a Maule 6" hard rubber tailwheel that dug a trench when landing on soft sand.

The new Matco hardly leaves a mark in the sand.

The only negative is that the new Matco raises the tail 3", so I need taller mains ( 27 inch ) to get the same wing incidence I had before.

So here is the question.

My Matco brakes work so well that it takes very little braking to get the tail to raise when trying to land short.

I will loose some of this braking with taller tires.

I know taller gear is available for Avids and Foxes but how about moving the axles forward to allow harder braking without nosing over.

What can of worms would this be opening?

Moving the axles forward would move weight forward which these airplanes do not like for best performance.

Is there a way to figure out how far to move the axle forward to get the desired results?

Thanks Herman

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Hi! What is the tire weight rating on all of these ATV tire options? They sound intriguing. The one setup I saw at Arlington was I think Nanco tires (21 inch?) and they were only like 350Lb/tire. Seemed marginal at best to me, especially on my Magnum.

I would like an economical alternative!

Chris

[C5Engineer 1170]

Hi! What is the tire weight rating on all of these ATV tire options? They sound intriguing. The one setup I saw at Arlington was I think Nanco tires (21 inch?) and they were only like 350Lb/tire. Seemed marginal at best to me, especially on my Magnum.

I would like an economical alternative!

Chris

Chris I think your right. I've landed my Nancos at over 1000 lbs on several occasions with no issues. I think they rate them based on a 500lb ATV

landing off a huge jump.

[akflyer 1427]

Chris I think your right. I've landed my Nancos at over 1000 lbs on several occasions with no issues. I think they rate them based on a 500lb ATV

landing off a huge jump.

500# ATV with a fat boy riding it.. There is always a good fudge factor tossed in there. I have flown mine at um... max + with extreme prejudice and they have been just fine at 8 PSI.

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Yeah that is what I thought.

You guys are running the tires at max or a bit over with the confidence that they will work reliabily because they are designed for rough off road use. Makes sense to me if I still had my MKIV and it's 1150 gross, but I think my Magnum would be pushing the envelope just a bit too far at 1750 gross.

At gross my Magnum has about 800 Lb on each main tire and probably 150 on the tailwheel. A bit too much for me.

Oh well, they do look like a GREAT option for planes that gross in the 1000 Lb range!

Chris

[akflyer 1427]

Yeah that is what I thought.

You guys are running the tires at max or a bit over with the confidence that they will work reliabily because they are designed for rough off road use. Makes sense to me if I still had my MKIV and it's 1150 gross, but I think my Magnum would be pushing the envelope just a bit too far at 1750 gross.

At gross my Magnum has about 800 Lb on each main tire and probably 150 on the tailwheel. A bit too much for me.

Oh well, they do look like a GREAT option for planes that gross in the 1000 Lb range!

Chris

Chris, I would never even think about putting them on the magnum! Save up for BW!