Emory Bored

I just love the way this outfit operates. Over on BCP as you know Leni some of these guys are paying $15,000 for propellors, What in the heck do a pair of 36" AKbushwheels cost? The whole maryann I mean, like with double puck Clevelands and new wheels? Or how about $30,000 to put IO-520 cylinders on your O-470. Sheesh, you add all that up and pretty soon you're talking about real money!

I don't think you'll have any problem getting #450 prop yank out of 140hp. I've seen number just under #500 for a Continental O-200 with a warp drive.

Looking forward to seeing this thing go

Dan

I still haven't made it over there. My mother had a stroke, the owner is incredibly busy building engines for Ferrari Challenge cars and I just bought a new to me pickup because mine took a shit. Good news is I may have a possible looker at the Luscombe. I'm outa cash otherwise so we'll see. In a couple of the photos the bottom of the wing looks to have some camber in others it looks pretty flat. Joey thinks the speedwings are permanent dogs but Leni thinks with extensions they can work out just fine. Leni's world is one I used to live in; density altitudes in winter are below zero. Joey flys where I fly.

Can a guy get ahold of a Stol Heavy Hauler wing out there??

Dan

I never in my wildest dreams thought I would become a prude but I guess I have. The Viagra ads get my dander up too. "Seek medical attention if you suddenly go deaf or blind and especially if you have an erection lasting more than four hours" For crying out loud. I can just hear my grand daughter asking; "Hey grandpa, what's a rection?" No way that's right. How in the world can ANY one think that's right?

Dan

Last night we saw a show that was on fox at 8pm called Magics Greatest secrets revealed. I had remembered watching it when I was younger and our 10 year old is into Magic so we had him come downstairs so we could watch what we thought was a nice family show. It was not 5 minutes into the show that they were showing so much Tits and Ass on the "assistants" that I had to shut it off. Now not that I was complaining but why in the hell do they have to make a family show that is on at 8pm all about sex? It's no friggin wonder that 13 year old pregnant girls doesn't even seem odd anymore. Every commercial you see on TV has a half naked woman on it. Again not that I'm complaining but my kid that is gonna hit puberty soon doesn't need to see that non stop. Some of the crap I've caught him watching on Nickelodeon is pretty far out there too. Anyways.. curious what your thoughts were.

Right on the money mister Joey.

I definitely noticed the six pac and manifold. Great story. I had a '55 with three on the tree and an overdrive. There was a T handle under the dash that you yanked on and it would go lubida lubida about in time with the telephone poles. It had the 265 with a four barrel. Never did much with it other than put a roof rack on it and carry all the guys and their boards down to the beach after school every day. Santa Cruz. That nomad of yours would have made one hell of a surf wagon! I cam by most of my teen cars from my brother. He was a working/saving fool and would go buy something, tear it apart and then sell it to me because he couldn't get it back together. I would fic it, drive it for awhile, then sell it off. Never had to work too hard either. I got a '41 Willys from him that way. Wish I had that sucker.

Dan

What have you found out?

Nothing yet. I spent the day over at the airport getting the Luscombe settled down in a hangar. Tomorrow SWMBO has a couple of must dos that I can't bet out of. I'll try like heck to get over there Saturday evening or sometime Sunday.

Dan

That could be anybody's drummer........ Moore Cowbell!!

'morning EB-

A couple of thoughts come to mind. I bought a KF4 w/912ul that had a similar history: engine circa and signoff both 1996, 170hrs TT, sat in a barn for a few years with only a few prop pull-throughs per year after the builder passed. I removed plugs and exhaust to check for internal corrosion and found none. Zero.

When I got it home I did the mandatory carb dis-assembly and cleaning, fuel system flush and hose replacement etc.. The log showed new plugs and an oil/filter change when put into storage so all I did after the foregoing maintenance was give it fresh fuel and coolant before hitting the starter. Fired right up, ran great, came to temp with all gauges in the green. No probs to date and I can tell you if you are used to 2-strokes in an Avid or KF platform, you will be shocked at the power and smoothness of the 912. Uses the same or less gas than a 582. Cost aside, I think it is the single best engine for our little planes.

As to costs: they can be -very- large if your 912ul is of early vintage and certain Service Bulletins remain undone. There were quite a few costly Mandatory SBs issued, not all of them are *normally* undertaken by owners. The SBs seem to come hot and heavy from Rotax on this engine, in large part I believe, because the 'certified' 912 platform is used for military applications where they have to err waaay on the side of caution (good example is the Stator Replacement SB, which almost no one chooses to perform). You can get an idea what Rotax 'recommends' to bring an older 912 up to snuff by reading the email attached regarding the 912 in a plane for sale I looked at a few years back.

You may already be aware of this: you can plug in the serial number of your engine HERE to see all applicable SBs and Letters, etc. You can also download all the owner's and maintenance manuals. You will find the 912 schedule maintenance items in the manual by run hours or years (some rubbers have a 5 year replacement, something to consider in you case). I found it helpful as a pre-start checklist and, of course, you will want to familiarize yourself with the engine somewhat before doing something stupid. RTFM(s), eh? One note: the 912 manuals and SBs etc. are all translated into English by Rotax, which makes for some funny or odd-sounding wording at times, but no different than the 2-stroke manuals and you will still understand easy enough. You can also check their Blog for info and, if you pay the price, have access to a ton of very instructional videos. If you register (free), they will email you any pertinent info and keep you abreast of any SBs etc. applicable to your engine s/n. It's a very good resource website IMHO, although I got miffed when Rotax started charging for certain content a couple years ago.

Do let us know how you make out.

This is all really good info sir. Thanks. The airplane has been indoors in air-conditioned comfort in a super dry state since the death of the owner. I will get the serial # of the engine and submit that for a SB readout. The airplane is a speedwing with extensions. I'm going to measure the spar thickness (if I can get at it with the wings folded) and make some other measurements soon. There are many lookers.

EB

You looking at an Avid that's for sale?

Yup.

I checked all of the topics open so far and we haven't talked about the 80hp Rotax 912. So, tell me about it. I'm looking at one with a little over 300 hours since new but I don't know yet the date of manufacture. The airplane it's in was signed off in '96. It's been sitting idle since 2008.

What do I have to do before running that thing. Does it need to be torn down and seals replaced like the two strokes or can we just change the oil and give it hell?

Thanks for the ideas

EB

Gang:

Holy cow. I not only posted this in the wrong category but it's apparently a topic of some vigorous contention. Never mind.

EB

Who is "Rotax Rick"? What are the specs on the 670? Is it a 582 modified?

Thought maybe since we are dissecting engines, that the info might be useful to someone looking for an engine.

Ed in MO

Just look on Barnstormers under the "Engines"/"Rotax" category. Actually here's a link http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_638906_BE+READY+TO+FLY+WITH+MY+582+BH.html I talked to the guy for quite awhile yesterday. He talks two miles a minute. Though he's from Florida I would bet he's transplanted from the big apple. The 670 is a snow machine engine. Apparently it takes most of the same bearings, seals, carbs, cooling bits, and indeed even the same head as the 582. With the right pipe, it has the same power curve shape as the 582 only tops out at 87 hp. I've been told on good authority that most folks don't like the 583 red head because it's too peaky. It goes from 60 to 90 horse power in about 250 rpm. This 670, so I'm told, isn't that way. Much smoother. No personal experience here, just typical internet noise. But interesting. Just to throw out even more noise, one of the new Hirth engines develops similar power at 4800 (?) rpm instead of 6500. It's main problem is that it cost damn near as much as a 912, though it weighs considerably less.

Just spouting off here. Learning from my more experienced peers.....

EB

Can anyone point me to some pictures or description of the "under the turtledeck" baggage set up for the Avid??

Thanks

EB

You didn't say what engine you are planning to use.

Try RAM or Stratus for a Soob EA-81 mount pricing. There may be others, like Eggenfelner who make Soob mounts. Reductions is gone.

If you are determined to weld your own, I can send you photos of mine, but it was originally for a Pelican. Maybe someone with a KF can?

I modified my firewall to fit the mount. Check Barnstormers or the Kitfox forums to find one.

ED in MO

Well the project I was looking at is gone today. I knew it would go in a big hurry. I was thinking about actually putting a Simonini or a Rotax 670 in it. The airplane was designed for the 912 but when you pencil whip one of those you end up in the used Rans territory. There's a tri-gear HH near Springfield with a grey head in it that's near ready to assemble but he's wanting $13500 for it. There's a FLYING one in Alberta for $1500 more. In my situation it's a no brainer. Go for the flyer.

EB

There's a Kitfox 4 partially completed kit on Barnstormers that I came awful close to buying yesterday but I called Kitfox about firewall forward kits and became just kinda disgusted at their prices. The typical Zenith FWF kit for instance is about $2500. Kitfox wants $4295.

So. Some of you guys are doing Subaru installs, VWs and what not. Are you modifying a manufacturer's kit or pretty much gong it alone? In the old Tony Bingeles books from EAA he shows how to build a cowl for instance. I imagine with the carbon fiber pre-pregs that are out there now, that his process might be kinda fun. I'm a pretty decent welder with quite a lot of industrial experience. I resent like hell paying $700 for a dang engine mount.

So, here's a new thread to argue about. What do you guys think?

EB

Same way I feel about the 2 cycles - too many forced landings, IMO.

Like the John Deere Gator: That twin engine has a diaphram fuel pump which doesn't last, and it fills the crankcase with gas.

Speaking of ATVs, Been seeing the CAN-AM commercials on TV: 82 hp, 1000cc Rotax, (Twin?),I believe - will it ever be an aircraft engine??

To each; his own opinion and destiny ;<)

Ed in MO

The question is, how do you separate the wheat from the chaff? These forum postings are all anecdotal and filled with personal agendas. Who knows what to believe? The more I hear about the 2 strokes the better I feel about them. They MUST be brought up to temp with about 4 minutes at 4500rpm (not 3000) prior to TO. If you do that, they are very reliable and pretty cheap too. I hate the sound of them but flown with cautious respect for proper procedure they are apparently fine. If you want to get an idea of how far ahead of the pack Rotax is, just look up their service bulletins. They read like Lycoming and Continental. I have not been able to find ANY such literature from Jabiru for instance or Hirth. The 582 Blue Head is one hell of low powered aircraft engine. Rotax Rick makes his 670 too. Very interesting with lots of power for takeoff and lower fuel consumption and rpm/stress for cruising. I'm slowly changing my mind. (what's left of it)

Today while changing out carb boots with new ones from JBM industries I discovered something that could have led to an engine out. While moving my carbs around the T fitting in my primer line right before the carbs completely fell apart. I barely moved the lines too. I'm thinking vibration would have gotten it before much longer. That fitting came with the primer kit so I assumed it was fuel resistant. I'm using the blue 1/8" lines for primer line. I replaced it with a brass fitting from a petstore used on fish tank lines.

Best case if it would have let go in flight I would have just shot raw gas all over my engine bay the next time I primed it. Worst case it would have sucked air through the plunger leading to an engine out. Glad I found it in the hangar. There is another plastic T in my main fuel line where the primer taps off it. It's a 1/4X1/4X1/8 I'm going to be looking for a metal replacement for it too!

McMaster Carr http://www.McMaster.com

I have a custom trailer and all the hardware to secure everything that you are more than welcome to. It's licensed and legal with good tires and lights. I wouldn't hesitate to pull it across the country. I towed mine 850 miles one time.

I was sure hoping you'd chime in here C5engineer. (I don't know if we're staying anonymous here) I knew you had a trailer. I'm going to be out of town from Thursday morning until Monday. A decision is in the offing.

I'll keep you and Darcy posted.

Dan

The Jabiru has a ton of bad news around it. But it has it's supporters. Curiously enough. The 2 Stroke motors, including the 582 have a ton of bad news around them too. Curiously enough. I need to go for a ride in one, or the other, or both.

I think the Jab is out for me. If one F's up, I can spend so much money sorting it that I think I'd give up. My mind changes by the hour. There is a nice Super SkyRaider with Jabiru available. My wife hates tandem. I love it.

Darcy has a nice Avid MK IV in Alberta, Canada. Grey head. It's nice and quite well equipped. Priced pretty good. All the money is together. Decisions. Darcy's airplane is right on my budget. Room to spare. I need to borrow or rent a trailer though. I don't want to make my transition to Avid in a big hurry and then fly 1500 miles through the ice and snow

Would you just look at the size of that dude! Or thats a very tiny airplane.

Obviously I'm not communicating here. French? We're all aware of the noise in the background. Somebody with an Avid IV has worked through the issues on his second Jabiru motor. Someplace on the web is a lengthy thread of that analysis and work through.

Ahh Ha! I found it: http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/mr-smith-and-his-third-jabiru

EB

Greetings Lads and Laddies:

Somewhere I saw a giant really informative thread on a Jabiru install by somebody who had some smarts. It was full of hints and kinks for working out the overheating issues. I'm now looking at a Jab powered airplane and want to reread the thread while paying attention.

I've used the search here and Team Kitfox and I can't find it.

Anybody know where I saw that??

EB

I talked to the folks at Murphy about the 700 (non T). The Maverick was originally designed for HKS for the Japanese market. Murphy built 20 I think he said? Maybe 10. Anyway, he said the factory was unimpressed with the performance compared to the Rotax two strokes. So.....similar to what folks here are saying. There is no substitute for cubic inches as they say. The HKS is a lightweight in that department.

I don't think there is anything very scary about the 700T except the price. These things have come a long way since the days of Ray Jay turbos on your Mooney. If anyone can figure out how to make them pay it would be the Japanese. The projected TBO is pretty low but the parts are pretty cheap. I'd like to see them build a real competitor to Rotax in the four stroke arena. I'm pretty sure they would build an amazing product. This is not a small mom and pop operation. They are big time in Japan.

Whatever

EB