Balancing 582 carbs

[herman pahls 9]

I would appreciate some 582 advice

The Jabiru 2200 in my Model 2 Kitfox has been replaced by a 582 Bluehead.

Just got it running today without the prop on and hope to fly this week.

I have heard mention of a carb balancer on this forum but have no idea what the part number is and where to buy one.

I had to turn the idle screws down probably 4 turns since I was running it without a prop.

My questions are;

1 These carbs came with a HACman so where do I attach the carb balancer tubes? Do I need to disconnect the HACman tube that goes between both carbs?

2 I assume I use the balancer to get the idle balanced preferably with the prop on.

3 What RPM should I set the idle to with a C-box 2.62 ratio and Ivo Prop?

4 Do I then raise the RPM to adjust the throttle cable free play adjusters so both carbs open simaltaneously and equally? Do this at what RPM?

5 What do I need to know about the 10 percent ethanol in Oregons car gas?

6 My Kitfox has a 8 gallon plastic cowl tank and a 6 gallon fiberglass wing tank.

7 I used Avgas with the Jabiru so was not concerned with fuel tanks being affected by the ethanol.

8 What about the ultralight plastic fuel lines and rubber automotive fuel lines?

Thanks for your time.

Herman

[4aplat 2]

Hi Herman

did you broke your jab ??

MIcheL

[akflyer 1427]

I would appreciate some 582 advice

The Jabiru 2200 in my Model 2 Kitfox has been replaced by a 582 Bluehead.

Just got it running today without the prop on and hope to fly this week.

I have heard mention of a carb balancer on this forum but have no idea what the part number is and where to buy one.

I had to turn the idle screws down probably 4 turns since I was running it without a prop.

My questions are;

1 These carbs came with a HACman so where do I attach the carb balancer tubes? Do I need to disconnect the HACman tube that goes between both carbs?

2 I assume I use the balancer to get the idle balanced preferably with the prop on.

3 What RPM should I set the idle to with a C-box 2.62 ratio and Ivo Prop?

4 Do I then raise the RPM to adjust the throttle cable free play adjusters so both carbs open simaltaneously and equally? Do this at what RPM?

5 What do I need to know about the 10 percent ethanol in Oregons car gas?

6 My Kitfox has a 8 gallon plastic cowl tank and a 6 gallon fiberglass wing tank.

7 I used Avgas with the Jabiru so was not concerned with fuel tanks being affected by the ethanol.

8 What about the ultralight plastic fuel lines and rubber automotive fuel lines?

Thanks for your time.

Herman

1) Warm up the engine and then pull and plug the primers lines. you hook the balancer up to the ports for the primer on the carbs.

2) Yes, the prop has to be on.

3) Shoot for around 1800 RPM or what ever the lowest is you can get without getting any shacking or gear box chatter.

4) I use the Carb Mate balancer. If you dont want to drop the $ on one, I can send you mine on Wednesday if you want to borrow it, the instructions are very easy to follow. Start with getting the carbs balanced at and idle, then you check the full RPM range while watching the balancer. Adjust your cable lengths till the carbmate gices you a happy face and the lights stay in the green! It is very easy and only takes a couple run ups unless you are very lucky and get it on the first try. If you do that, you should consider a quick trip to Vegas!

5) Ethanol sucks... It should be drank (or sipped), not put in the gas tank!

6) The fiberglass tank, if it is older and does not use the new resin will soften up and cause lots of problems for you. You can avoind some issues by only putting gas in that tank when you fly, then drainng it after each flight. You could also get on the of the new tanks from wingtanks.com and drop it in there. A bit of work, but your ethanol worries will be gone. You may have to go up a jet size also to get the power back out of your engine. On our fuel injected machines, the factory had to turn the fuel maps up almost 30% over what we run on good gas up here to ge the same performance. Keep an eye on the EGT's and do a good plug reading to assure your fuel burn is correct.

8) all lines will have to be replaced with ones rated for Ethanol.

This is just what I would do if I was in your shoes...

[C5Engineer 1170]

I would appreciate some 582 advice

The Jabiru 2200 in my Model 2 Kitfox has been replaced by a 582 Bluehead.

Just got it running today without the prop on and hope to fly this week.

I have heard mention of a carb balancer on this forum but have no idea what the part number is and where to buy one.

I had to turn the idle screws down probably 4 turns since I was running it without a prop.

My questions are;

1 These carbs came with a HACman so where do I attach the carb balancer tubes? Do I need to disconnect the HACman tube that goes between both carbs?

2 I assume I use the balancer to get the idle balanced preferably with the prop on.

3 What RPM should I set the idle to with a C-box 2.62 ratio and Ivo Prop?

4 Do I then raise the RPM to adjust the throttle cable free play adjusters so both carbs open simaltaneously and equally? Do this at what RPM?

5 What do I need to know about the 10 percent ethanol in Oregons car gas?

6 My Kitfox has a 8 gallon plastic cowl tank and a 6 gallon fiberglass wing tank.

7 I used Avgas with the Jabiru so was not concerned with fuel tanks being affected by the ethanol.

8 What about the ultralight plastic fuel lines and rubber automotive fuel lines?

Thanks for your time.

Herman

Herman

I have never balanced my Bing 54 but probably should. One of the main things I do check though is that the slides on the carbs begin to move exactly at the same time with the throttle and that they both open fully. The aircrews are easy to synch with each other. Here's a link to an idea a Powered Parachute guy came up with on another forum I used to frequent.

http://www.ppcflyingforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235&page=2&highlight=carb+balancer

I have my idle set at around 2100. Book says 2000 but I get gearbox chatter there. Lenis answer is pretty good...he's cheating with his clutch though

Did you end up going with an oil injector or are you going to premix? With premixing I've had no issues in 2.5 years and 900 gallons with my 1990 fiberglass tanks using pump gas....SO FAR..time will tell but until then I'm going to enjoy the $1.50 a gallon cheaper fuel so I can still afford to go flying. Don't leave fuel sitting around in your tanks for long periods. I only ever keep enough in for what I'm doing since we don't have to contend with weather and I can land about anyplace if I had to. I put in a fresh can everytime I fly too if it's been sitting for more a week or two. Another thing I do is I put 5 gallons of Avgas in each side every once in a while to dilute down the whisky. Only difference I see is slightly cooler EGT's an Avgas (higher octane) and nasty plugs. It'll destroy a set of NGK's in 20 hours.

I run this fuel line from spruce

Had it since day one and used it on all the Powered Parachutes I owned. I replace it every two years or so. Its cheap and I like being able to see the fuel in my lines. There is ethanol "resistant" automotive line out there if your not into the ultralight stuff.

Glad to hear your getting close to being done. Bet your excited to have your rocket back!! Tell Brett hi for me when you get a chance.

Joey

[akflyer 1427]

I have my idle set at around 2100. Book says 2000 but I get gearbox chatter there. Lenis answer is pretty good...he's cheating with his clutch though

Well, with the clutch, I have mine set for a very smooth 1400 RPM

[Av8r3400 1179]

Tough to prop if your battery goes flat, though...

[akflyer 1427]

Tough to prop if your battery goes flat, though...

ahhh grasshopper... there is a work around for that too! few tapped holes, few set screws that can be installed in the field if need for such said scenario and your good to go!

[herman pahls 9]

Thanks to this forum for helping me

Michel

Not sure what you meant with "Did you broke your Jab??"

The Jabiru was good to me but because of Joey's backcountry Idaho Avid I went back to a 2 stroke to hopefully do the same.

My wish list of the future; Rotax 670,HACman, IFA IVO, RK 400 clutch, Bushwheels

Leni

Thanks for the balancer offer.

I am going to try the poor mans hardware store balancer that Joey linked.

Are you going to fill me in on how a few tapped holes and set screws lock the clutch to allow hand prop?

As easy as snow machines start, how about a rope starter.

Not sure how easy it would be to pull start in the cockpit of a Avid/Fox but with a RK 400 it would be easier.

Joey

I am premixing

Have not decided on the make of premix oil.

I can not find Citgo land and sea as Leni suggested in my area.

What do you pay for a gallon of your Amsoil 100:1 ?

I am also using the Blue fuel line you pictured.

Should safety wire or gear type clamps be used with the blue line?

Seems like years ago I was told not to use gear clamps on the blue fuel line and sure enough one of my connections leaked on initial start up.

Did you say that you have not had problems with car gas with ethanol?

Hope to be in the air soon.

Brent is doing great. I am so lucky to have my son 2 blocks away.

He is building an off-road truck and of course I get to help.

I need bush wheels so I can land on the gravel bars he does.

Herman

[C5Engineer 1170]

Herman here's a link to the Amsoil site where they list their oil

http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-2-cycle-oil

I buy mine by a case of 12 quarts for $128. A case mixes up 295 gallons at 100:1 I use those plastic snap clamps that spruce sells and on my fuel pump and carbs I use the small metal hose clamps. I always used wire on my PPC with a minimum of two wraps. It's easy to cut the hose with wire.

Based on my experience I could not get my 582 to fire cold with a two blade prop hand propping. I've seen it done with a 3 blade prop before. I have the E-box so I left the pull start on the back of my motor. I rotated the housing so it comes straight out the side. I just remove my left side cowl and it usually starts in 2 pulls when it's cold out and my little ultrastart red battery won't fire it. I've had to do this every time at Johnson Creek. Kinda a pain I need a better battery set up...another thing on the to do list.

Which wheels are you running? Alaska Bushwheels are sweet but I think they are a bit excessive for our airplanes. Those 21" Nancos work really well and are plenty for anything I'm willing to land on.

Just got your call Sorry I am overseas with no Int'l plan. Will touch base when I return.

[herman pahls 9]

Herman here's a link to the Amsoil site where they list their oil

http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-2-cycle-oil

I buy mine by a case of 12 quarts for $128. A case mixes up 295 gallons at 100:1 I use those plastic snap clamps that spruce sells and on my fuel pump and carbs I use the small metal hose clamps. I always used wire on my PPC with a minimum of two wraps. It's easy to cut the hose with wire.

Based on my experience I could not get my 582 to fire cold with a two blade prop hand propping. I've seen it done with a 3 blade prop before. I have the E-box so I left the pull start on the back of my motor. I rotated the housing so it comes straight out the side. I just remove my left side cowl and it usually starts in 2 pulls when it's cold out and my little ultrastart red battery won't fire it. I've had to do this every time at Johnson Creek. Kinda a pain I need a better battery set up...another thing on the to do list.

Which wheels are you running? Alaska Bushwheels are sweet but I think they are a bit excessive for our airplanes. Those 21" Nancos work really well and are plenty for anything I'm willing to land on.

Just got your call Sorry I am overseas with no Int'l plan. Will touch base when I return.

Edited 16 Nov 2011 by herman pahls

[herman pahls 9]

Joey

You said you use the plastic clamps on the fuel pump and carbs.

Where else then do you use the small metal gear clamps on the fuel system?

Is there a reason you do not use the metal gear clamps on the carbs and fuel pump also?

Do you avoid using safety wire as a clamp due to the risk of cutting the plastic tube?

Do you car gas with ethanol?

Thanks Herman

[C5Engineer 1170]

Herman I use the metal hose clamps on the fuel pump and carbs and the plastic clamps everyplace else. They are kinda finnicky but once they clamp they work pretty well.