Avid/Kitfox

[Ramos 62]

Is there a parallel that can be drawn between the various Avid and Kitfox models? I am much more familiar with Kitfox models and how they differ, one from another. Just trying to learn what is what in the world of Avid aircraft. Any and all information appreciated.

Jon

[1avidflyer 1983]

Well I'll add my 2 cents worth on this one.  First off, the standard Avid wingspan is 2' shorter than the standard Kitfox wingspan.  2 stroke engines in KItfoxes are mounted sparkplugs up, Avids are plugs down.  That makes Avids easier to see over the nose by a fair amount.  The Kitfox 1 was a copy of the Avid A model.  Both are 36" wide in the fuselage.   Kitfox 2,3, and 4 are 39.5" wide as are the Avid B,C and MK IV.   The Kitfox 4 was a large departure in design from the earlier models.  Different style/profile on the wing, larger tail, ect.   Gross weights for the Kitfox 2 =950, Kitfox 3= 1050,  Kitfox 4 started at 1050, but later raised to 1200.  Avid has a speedster wing, a STOL wing, and Heavy Hauler wing and gross weights range from 911 lbs to 1150 lbs for models B,C, and MK IV.  A guy could write a book I guess, but I'll leave it here for now.  JImChuk

[Ramos 62]

Thank you, Sir. That's a fair bit of detailed information, worth way more than 2 cents! I have basically the same question posted over on Team Kitfox. One thing has struck about this site, Team Kitfox and the Rans site is how friendly and helpful the members are, even to ignorant newbs such as myself!!!

[EDMO 1078]

Just adding / continuing what Jim said:  Kitfox 5,6,7,SS are much heavier built than the Model 4 and earlier with GW of 1500/1550 lbs, and can use Commercial Aircraft engines.  Kitfox also named some of its 5 & 6 models with names like Speedster, Voyager, Vixen and Outback, depending on configuration. 

 Avid made the Magnum, GW 1700 which could use a standard Aircraft engine from Lycoming or Continental, and also the Catalina, an amphibian, both with longer wings. 

 A split-off company made the Airdale, a stretched and modified Avid GW 1400 lbs with a Stratus Subaru engine, and made Avid parts and fuselages for the Avid+ and Fat Avid for a while, but it is almost impossible to contact the new owner now.  

Kitfox is still in business with 3rd owners, and Avid no longer exists.   EDMO

Edited 21 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

Guess I need to get off my butt and add this info to the files and forms section. While very similar it's kind of hard to draw a parallel between them. It's more like a squiggly line. People often mistake the MK4 Avid being the same as a Kitfox 4 but in reality they are totally different. The 123 and ABC where the closest in comparison to each other. When you get time check out the files and forms area. Weeks of Avid reading material is located there. Welcome to the amazing world of flaperon lovers.

[Av8r3400 1179]

I always like to say that by the time Dan Denny got to the Model IV Kitfox, he had made enough money to hire an actual engineering staff and they redesigned the plane into the next generation.  This was the final nail in the coffin for Avid.  By then Dean Wilson was no longer part of Avid and what was left of his company couldn't survive.  The Avid Mark V (which became the Airdale) was too little, too late.  They were rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Airdale has clung on, off and on for several years never really catching on.  I will say that it looks like it is finally gone now...

[EDMO 1078]

I always like to say that by the time Dan Denny got to the Model IV Kitfox, he had made enough money to hire an actual engineering staff and they redesigned the plane into the next generation.  This was the final nail in the coffin for Avid.  By then Dean Wilson was no longer part of Avid and what was left of his company couldn't survive.  The Avid Mark V (which became the Airdale) was too little, too late.  They were rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Airdale has clung on, off and on for several years never really catching on.  I will say that it looks like it is finally gone now...

Wasn't that "staff" the ones who took over the business when Denny Aircraft became Skystar and redesigned it again as the Kitfox 5?  EDMO

Edited 21 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

You also have to remember that the Avid Mark V was never intended to be a production model. John simply built it with the help of their welder and shared his knowledge of it with the company. At least in some regards. I maybe mistaken but I believe he had the rights to it as his design and sold them to Airdale, or whatever they called themselves at that point. I have the original design that was looked over by an engineer and have quite a few papers on his analysis about the airframe and what he thought about it. Not sure where it is right now, but I know I have the papers for it. 

[Ramos 62]

Thank you all for the information you have provided. I am humbled by your collective knowledge and willingness to share!

[EDMO 1078]

Guess we left out the Avid Bandit, a light-weight version of the Mark IV, and also the Aerobat, a short HH type wing that is aerobatic, if you couldn't figure that out by the name.   The different Avid wing drawings are posted in Files and Forms, thanks to C5Engineer.

By the same omissions, we left out the Kitfox Lite and Lite Squared, just different versions of the same basic planes.   And also the latest Kitfox SS-Sti with a new type wing.   EDMO

Edited 22 Dec 2016 by EDMO