The more I dig into my Avid, the less it seems like my paerwork is right

[Trackwelder 12]

  According to the registration on my Avid it is supposed to be an A model but as I look at the fuselage the A model is out, removable engine mount. B model may be possible but I am not sure that the doors are the correct shape. I Believe that the C Model had a wider chassis so I am pretty sure that we stop there as far as thefuselage is concerned.The wings on the other hand are 6061 t6 0.090 on the spars so I don't think that they fit any of the information that I have been able to find. One other thing on the fuselage, there are three wooden stringers glued to the metal work. I guess the big question is should I continue to use the paperwork that I have or is it still possible to register under ELSA and fly off the hours again. I am pretty well tearing this plane down to nothing and rebuilding it from scratch with a few minor changes. Should I change the rudder to recenter it for a future engine replacement VW or Subaru redrive either way or what other changes would you make to your birds if you had them torn down and had the time to do what you wanted. I thought about widening the cockpit but am not having any luck finding out what size the spar carry throught tubes would have to be for the wider chassis. I realize that on the subaru the 16 inch stretch seems to be popular but is it necesary with the VW or just better handling. I love this plane I have dreamed about owning one since I first saw it in Kitplanes. My biggest necessity now is to keep the useable load weight as high as possible figuring the standard 3.8 G that cessenas sem to be rated at. Thanks in advance I am a certified welder so this is the time for me to make the changes that people think are worth while.

[akflyer 1427]

Can you post a pic of it?  The doors will tell alot.  If I was to rebuild another one, I would go with the merle williams fuse widening kit.  Stupid simple to make the mods and give you a few more inches in the shoulders.

My HH spars are .083" 6061 T6 so I am not sure where the 090 spars came from.  Is that what is stamped on the spars, or is it possible it was a miss measurement and they really are .083" ?  If you have the time and ability to make the 16" stretch, I would do it.  I am nose heavy with a 582.  You put a subie or VW in the nose and you are going to be adding lead to the tail or moving the battery to the tail.  If you make the stretch, the the taller wider gear will be a must or you will not have crapola for AOA on the wing.  I have the taller gear and even with 24" tires, I want more AOA.  I allways drag the tail wheel in first and could come in slower if I could get the nose up more. 

A few pics of the plane would make it easier to help you out.

ps, if yer a welder, then I am the hated one (QC manager)

[Trackwelder 12]

No the spars are actually marked 2.50 T6 6061 .090 that really throws me but the doors are the A or B style. One of these days my wife says she will post picture for me I don't seem to figure it out and she is a Special Ed teacher and gave up teaching me.

[dholly 718]

No the spars are actually marked 2.50 T6 6061 .090 that really throws me but the doors are the A or B style. One of these days my wife says she will post picture for me I don't seem to figure it out and she is a Special Ed teacher and gave up teaching me.

Avid used two thickness of spars .065" and .083". However, according to Steve Winder, at one time it appears a few commercial grade 2.5" x .090" spars were shipped. Bob Stone also said Avid ordered .083 and was shipped .090... so they just used them. Long story but it sounds like there are a very few .090" spars out there. I think only the A model had the wood stringers, but many owners cut off the A's fixed engine mount when replacing the Cuyuna so that shouldn't be a surprise. Like many Avids, maybe you have an A model with "a little of this, a little of that". What kind of brakes? On the carry thru tubes, dunno if the tube dia. went up with B and C models, but my Mk-IV #1127D model came without the gussets that later D models had. Might want to add them.

[Trackwelder 12]

Where would I find the information on the fuselage widening kit, the stretch is easy and I would eventually like to go with the VW with redrive and if I am front heavy with the 582 I guess its time to look at it to. Some time ago Steve Winder I believe said that they remove 60 feet of 4130 tubing and ad 80 feet to do the stretch. I would eventually like to widen the landing gear but other than one piece of tubing there are no other changes that need to be done with the material off.

[Trackwelder 12]

Brakes are manual, removeable motor mount looks factory.

[Trackwelder 12]

Gussets are new. What thickness?

[dholly 718]

.069" gussets on rear carry-thru tube. Note the gusset against the hinge pin bushing must be notched to allow the wing to fold. While you're at it, consider adding a .090" center anchor plate for new 4-pt harnesses (with integrated turtle deck stand-off post to help stop rattle), and a new antenna mount just behind the turtle deck fabricated out of .035" sheet.

For D.I.Y. fuse widening ideas, check out the Kitfox I-IV kit by Murle Williams www.murlewilliamsaviation.com and the Kitfox VII door frame pics at http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=40.

With everything else you've mentioned plus oem manual brakes, sure sounds like an A model retrofitted with a removable engine mount to me. IMHO, the stretch makes very good sense if you want to use a heavier engine. I think you'd consider it time well spent, or wish you had done it, after the fact.

[edit] fixed link

[Trackwelder 12]

I had already decided to make a mount for four point harnesses But if this was a conversion from an A model It was done by an expert, I wonder if this may have been an A and a half. sounds like the stretch is going to be a go I don't know much about subarus but the Great Plains VW with redrive appears to be in the budget. My other choice would be a Jabiru but if the 582 is barely in the envelope they all need the stretch. I will look at the widening information after spending years swing a sledge hammer for a living I don't walk through too many doors with room to spare.

[Trackwelder 12]

One more question, at what point would you consider it a "new" plane and redo the paperwork ? Around here I am looking at $400 plus dollars for an A&P to just look at the Avid and that is if nothing is wrong. Several have said that I know more about the plane than they ever will You would think that with out any hidden control systems an owner assist annual shouldn't take long at all but they all seem to hold to a minimum of 8 hours on a homebuilt and that is when they have time to look at it.

[akflyer 1427]

are you talking about redoing the paperwork and getting a repaimans certificate for it?  You cant ever apply for the repairmans certificate once if has been registred unless you were on the registration as the original owner.  You may be able to turn in the registration, say the aircraft was destroyed, and say you built a new plane out of many different pieces.  The paperwork would be a nightmare and you would have to go throught phase 1 again.  When the DAR came down and lookied at mine, I showed him in the rebuild pics and manual I put together that I had more work into the plane than if it was built new, and should therefore be able to get a repairmans for it.. he was a damn nice guy, but told me there was no way in hell I could ever do it.

[C5Engineer 1170]

I'm in the same boat. It was suggested to me.. I asked around and got the same answer... paperwork nightmare.

[Trackwelder 12]

Well question 2, what are you guys paying for your condition inspections?

[C5Engineer 1170]

I am paying right around $500 on saturday for this first one from a reputable IA. I have friends from here on out that will do it for a few cold beers.

[akflyer 1427]

I am paying right around $500 on saturday for this first one from a reputable IA. I have friends from here on out that will do it for a few cold beers.

I am almost ashamed to answer.  Got a buddy that is an A&P/ AI and he charges 60 hr.  he looked the plane over and went throught the new log books I started (original logs burned in house fire).  he was into it for 90 minutes.  I traded him some electric RC stuff he wanted for the 90 bucks.