Avid Resale Values

[allonsye 85]

Folks -

 

Is there a definitive guide to pricing and values of an Avid? I'm getting close to closing on one and this perplexes me.

 

In this case, I've come across a '93 C in the hands of it's builder who's had it stored since '99 and claims no damage history. It has 330 TTAF, 582 Gray is majored and still in it's shipping crate. Avionics consist of basic and a vintage Garmin 100. HH wings. It also has an IFA IVO prop, 14 gal fglass wing tanks. What would be the low-end price, what the high-end?

 

I'm an A&P with time in Tcraft and PA140. Been out of flying for 20-yrs and getting back into the sport.

 

If anyone has a favorite Avid Insp/Pre-Purchase inspection they'd like to pass on, I'd be grateful. I've search about the board - if I missed it (or pricing), apologies.

 

Many thx,

Paul in NC

[lv2plyguitar 172]

_{I am selling mine.  Maybe this will help guide you.}

_{http://anchorage.craigslist.org/for/3920285493.html}

 

 

_Thanks

[allonsye 85]

My god man! You must be needing a different airplane or none at all if you're selling this. I'm need to stay near the 10k price point. Nice plane - fortunately wayyyyyy to far from me to even consider. Interestingly there does not seem many Avids on the market presently.  Is the MkIV the same as the C? They seem the same model from what I'm reading.

_{I am selling mine.  Maybe this will help guide you.}

_{http://anchorage.craigslist.org/for/3920285493.html}

 

 

_Thanks

[lv2plyguitar 172]

Model C just had the stol wing with smaller wall wing spar, less ribs, 5/8 strut.  The Mark IV Heavy Hauler should have the Larger Spar, More ribs, 7/8 strut.   I was a little misled when I bought mine because it was advertised as a heavy hauler.  It is to a degree.  The strut was upgraded to a 7/8 and the cowling was changed to a mark iv style and cheek radiators installed.  The only thing lacking to make mine a true heavy hauler is the larger spar and additional ribs.  So look at yours carefully before you assume anything and check its design with Airdale. 

[akflyer 1427]

Paul,

 

I have not seen anything really giving market or resale value to the Avids or Kitfox lines.. It is a dog eat dog world and what ever the seller can get pretty much.

 

The C model is not the same as the MK IV.  The MK IV has some improvements to the C model and the rounded rudder.  MANY people who were building the C models at the time the "D"/ MK IV came out made the change to the MK IF cowling and rounded rudder, but not the baggage compartment (small) or the access door in the side of the baggage area.  As they are homebuilts, a lot of builders picked and chose the upgrades they wanted to incorporate into the build. 

 

There is a list on here some place that I think Doug posted from Steve Winder (the former Avid guru for many years at the factory) that detailed some of the differences in various models.  Even the Heavy Hauler I have seen listed gross weights from 1050-1200.  The paperwork that came with mine has 1085 on the sales brochure   But then again it also said it had 18 gallon tanks and a few other goodies that ARE NOT on my plane.

 

It sounds like you and I would have the same model plane "C" HH.  I know what I have loaded mine to, but I did do a few mods when I was rebuilding mine.  I got mine as a basket case for 1500.00 and put another 10 into it including a new set of full lotus floats.  I have since dumped another 5 into it on EDO floats plus a stack of receipts that I refuse to add up doing little upgrades here and there.. Mk IV cowling, belly radiator, now the MK IV incowl radiators etc..

 

Worst case the on the 582 is I would grab an 80.00 set of seals and gaskets and pull it down, new gaskets and seals all the way around, then put it in and fly it if the rest of the airframe is in good shape.  If it has been hangared, I would look for vermin infestation in the spars etc unless he did a good job of pickling it when he parked it.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want, you dont have to worry about me trying to poach a buy on you, I am way to far away and the last thing I need is another project

 

[akflyer 1427]

The Model "C" and the rest of the Avids with the STOL wing used .065" spars, the Heavy Hauler used .085"...

Model C just had the stol wing with smaller wall wing spar, less ribs, 5/8 strut.  The Mark IV Heavy Hauler should have the Larger Spar, More ribs, 7/8 strut.   I was a little misled when I bought mine because it was advertised as a heavy hauler.  It is to a degree.  The strut was upgraded to a 7/8 and the cowling was changed to a mark iv style and cheek radiators installed.  The only thing lacking to make mine a true heavy hauler is the larger spar and additional ribs.  So look at yours carefully before you assume anything and check its design with Airdale. 

[EDMO 1078]

I believe this is correctly advertised as .083, is that nitpicking? I wonder what the engineers determined was the difference in modular bending or whatever term they use for the strength of the two thicknesses? Could ,009 wall difference make that much difference?

Mostly joking about the .083, but kind of serious about the engineers finding of strengths. Then again, how many of us understand engineer talk, unless they put it into layman terms, like how much weight will each hold? Then, we add the various stiffeners and webs into the equation, and strut strengths, and strut location, and what in heck do we have then? I guess if it flies, and you don't break it - you have an airplane!

EDMO

Edited 15 Jul 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[akflyer 1427]

your right Ed, it was a fat finger mistake... the HH has .083" spars.  Dont get me launching into the module of elasticity speech   I think alot of it may have been a fudge factor too (safety factor) as KF still uses .065" spars even in the 1500# planes, but they use the full length inserts too as I understand it.  The HH has a longer spar web, but not really that much longer than the normal wing.

 

[EDMO 1078]

your right Ed, it was a fat finger mistake... the HH has .083" spars.  Dont get me launching into the module of elasticity speech   I think alot of it may have been a fudge factor too (safety factor) as KF still uses .065" spars even in the 1500# planes, but they use the full length inserts too as I understand it.  The HH has a longer spar web, but not really that much longer than the normal wing.

 

I may be behind on the Kitfox inserts info - the last I saw was the KF5, and the inserts were not very long.

Someone enlighten me on that, please.

I have wondered if they changed thicknesses because of availability, or price?

EDMO

Edited 15 Jul 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[allonsye 85]

Thoughtful replies gents. The seller/builder claims this is 1150 gross - 570 EW, 580 UL.  He was a Maule dealer and I get the impression he built this plane to that sort of standard.  I don't know what a refreshened 582 costs but I thought it a good value to be getting one with it.  I'll likely add a clutch to it and replace all the oil/coolant lines when I hang the motor back on. It has 3 radiators!  I might look for a better mod to accomplish the cooling.  I'm rather amazed - seller claims 90mph cruise! That's gotta be at a 6gph throttle setting or are the IVO IFA props that good?

 

Wish I could say that I got this thing for something like $7500 as others have chimmed about -- NOT. Appears a solid lil 330TT a/c. I'll give it a good going over before sealinig the deal. I am concerned about vermin damage from storage. Seems to me that $9 - $13k is fair market for a clean, low time, 1 owner, undamaged Avid C Heavy Hauler w/overhauled mtr.

 

BTW, he has a brand new set Aqua 950 floats he offered me but I'm not interested at least at this time if anyone is interested.

 

Paul

Edited 16 Jul 2013 by allonsye

[Av8r3400 1179]

...KF still uses .065" spars even in the 1500# planes, but they use the full length inserts too as I understand it.  ...

 

Actually I think the 1550# Kitfox wing uses the same 60" insert.  The difference in weight capacity is the Grove landing gear thickness....

Edited 16 Jul 2013 by Av8r3400

[EDMO 1078]

Thoughtful replies gents. The seller/builder claims this is 1150 gross - 570 EW, 580 UL.  He was a Maule dealer and I get the impression he built this plane to that sort of standard.  I don't know what a refreshened 582 costs but I thought it a good value to be getting one with it.  I'll likely add a clutch to it and replace all the oil/coolant lines when I hang the motor back on. It has 3 radiators!  I might look for a better mod to accomplish the cooling.  I'm rather amazed - seller claims 90mph cruise! That's gotta be at a 6gph throttle setting or are the IVO IFA props that good?

 

Wish I could say that I got this thing for something like $7500 as others have chimmed about -- NOT. Appears a solid lil 330TT a/c. I'll give it a good going over before sealinig the deal. I am concerned about vermin damage from storage. Seems to me that $9 - $13k is fair market for a clean, low time, 1 owner, undamaged Avid C Heavy Hauler w/overhauled mtr.

 

BTW, he has a brand new set Aqua 950 floats he offered me but I'm not interested at least at this time if anyone is interested.

 

Paul

Paul,

I hope you get a nice Avid to fly in - and hope you stay active on this site.

Good Flying,

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

90 MPH is doable at wide open throttle like you said buring as much fuel as an O-320 does. 80-85 is more realistic and 75 if your heavy. I recently installed a 72" IVO inflight adjustable and I found it gave me a lot better climbout vs an increase in cruise. I picked up a few mph but it wasn't drastic. As Leni said I would have the motor torn down and new seals put in it or you'll most likely end up having to do it when you develop a leak. I would want the warm fuzzy of what the crank looked like after sitting 10 years too. People have vastly different definitions of what a pickled motor is. If nothing else use this as a bargaining tool. Also there's nothing wrong with it but the Mod 90 582 (Grey Head) is the older version. The Mod 99 (Blue Head) is the newer version and I've seen it used as a selling point on airplanes in the past. Might be another bargaining tool. Not sure what the 3 radiators set up is all about. You should just need either cheek radiators up front or a belly radiator on the bottom. As far as price goes I surf Barnstormers religiously everyday and I have looked at every Avid that's been for sale on there over the past 5 years or so. I can't tell you what they actually sold for but as far as asking price 9-13K is on the low side. Typically with a 582 they are listed for mid teens. I wouldn't list mine right now for anything below 15K with the mods it has. I'm into it for close to 20 if you factor in the initial purchase price when it was rescued from the barn. Kitfoxes tend to fetch a bit more than Avids but I think it's just because of the name. Unstarted kits go for the 5-7K range. Finding a flying one for under 10 would be pretty tough unless it's an A model with a Cuyuna motor on it. Engines, Mods such as the bush gear, brake upgrades, etc, and Avionics seem to be what drives the price up or down just like certified airplanes.

 

Good luck with your purchase! They are extremely fun airplanes to fly and cheap to operate. There's tons of information on here regarding modifications and operating tips.

 

 

Thoughtful replies gents. The seller/builder claims this is 1150 gross - 570 EW, 580 UL.  He was a Maule dealer and I get the impression he built this plane to that sort of standard.  I don't know what a refreshened 582 costs but I thought it a good value to be getting one with it.  I'll likely add a clutch to it and replace all the oil/coolant lines when I hang the motor back on. It has 3 radiators!  I might look for a better mod to accomplish the cooling.  I'm rather amazed - seller claims 90mph cruise! That's gotta be at a 6gph throttle setting or are the IVO IFA props that good?

 

Wish I could say that I got this thing for something like $7500 as others have chimmed about -- NOT. Appears a solid lil 330TT a/c. I'll give it a good going over before sealinig the deal. I am concerned about vermin damage from storage. Seems to me that $9 - $13k is fair market for a clean, low time, 1 owner, undamaged Avid C Heavy Hauler w/overhauled mtr.

 

BTW, he has a brand new set Aqua 950 floats he offered me but I'm not interested at least at this time if anyone is interested.

 

Paul