Coolant expansion tank mounting

[C5Engineer 1170]

Are you guys that are running cheek or belly radiators running one of these guys?

 

http://www.lockwood.aero/p-1389-expansion-tank-assy-90-degr.aspx

 

It's $140 from Lockwood. Looking for some pictures on how an inline filler set up is mounted under the cowling. On other set ups it looks like it kind of just sits out there on the hoses. Looks like on this one one small nipple is for the vent and the other one the overflow hose. Kind of spendy but looks like a genuine set up from Rotax. Took me forever to find this thing. The proper name is Expansion Tank Assembly in case anyone else is looking.

[dav8or 20]

I have seen it mounted with a large hose clamp around the tank to a bracket mounted on the engine but the bracket could be mounted anywhere.

[EDMO 1078]

Again - being frugal - The cheap plastic auto expansion tank with bracket can be bought for a buck or two from the salvage yard - mount with bracket on firewall - cant see $140 for one.

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

I couldn't find anything automotive related with 1" outlets. I am sure there are snowmobile parts that would work too but without a year make and model or a part number it's tough to find something.

[SuberAvid 617]

The difference is the expansion tank has to be at the highest part of the cooling system so the air can collect there and be pushed out into the overflow tank.  Most automotive systems have the top of the radiator as the highest point so it serves as the expansion tank.  In my Subarau with the nose radiators, one of them has a filler cap at the highest point and a vent line in the neck that vents to the overflow so I don't need a separate expansion tank.  If you are running a belly radiatoryou can't do it that way so you have to have a separate expansion tank and fill cap at the highest point in the system.  The stock Avid set up is  not really an expasion tank but just a filler cap/ manifold for the hoses and vent line mounted at the highest point between the radiators right behind the redrive.

[akflyer 1427]

http://www.cps-parts.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=810

 

This is the recovery bottle I am using.  The price seems to have gone up a tad since I bought it a few years ago, but it works good.

 

The radiator fill/ remote cap mount I used is from a snow machine.  Arctic Cat part number 2606-859. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arctic-Cat-Filler-Neck-See-Description-2606-859-/230974469412   If your using the belly mount, these are the only two things you need to plumb it in.  I used an aluminum strap off the two threaded holes in the top of the gear box to mount the fill neck.  I forgot to get pictures of it when I was out at the plane yeasterday so I will get those for you when I get back in two weeks.

 

The biggest thing is to make sure that belly radiator is atleast 2" below the bottom of the fuse so its in good air flow!!

 

[EDMO 1078]

The guy I bought my Soob from had his belly rad mounted inside the rear of the cowling, by firewall straps, at about a 45 degree angle, with a tunnel running from the cowl intake to the rad and narrowing down beyond the rad a short ways. This tunnel was to keep his exhaust heat separate from the rad. Said it worked good.

EDMO

Edited 1 Jul 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

Thanks Leni that's what I was after. Only piece I am trying to figure out now is where the vent off the water pump would tie into the system. It currently plugs into the radiator right below the overflow tube. The Rotax schematics show it T ing into the main line radiator line. That spendy Rotax part has a spot for it.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Thanks Leni! $10 looks way more reasonable. Sounds like you also have the T thing figured out for the Vent line. Here is the cooling system schematic for an inverted engine in case anyone needs to ever reference it. Joey's note for future reference 95 Artic Cat ZRT 800

 

 

[EDMO 1078]

http://www.cps-parts.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=810

 

This is the recovery bottle I am using.  The price seems to have gone up a tad since I bought it a few years ago, but it works good.

 

The radiator fill/ remote cap mount I used is from a snow machine.  Arctic Cat part number 2606-859. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arctic-Cat-Filler-Neck-See-Description-2606-859-/230974469412   If your using the belly mount, these are the only two things you need to plumb it in.  I used an aluminum strap off the two threaded holes in the top of the gear box to mount the fill neck.  I forgot to get pictures of it when I was out at the plane yeasterday so I will get those for you when I get back in two weeks.

 

The biggest thing is to make sure that belly radiator is atleast 2" below the bottom of the fuse so its in good air flow!!

 

Leni,

Does this fill thing take a special cap / pressure cap / standard pressure cap?

Does it come with a cap? How many pounds of pressure?

Thanks,

EDMO

Edited 2 Jul 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[EDMO 1078]

Here is a Physics Professor question that might make you stop and think - and read the books.

If your radiator pressure cap is rated at 7 pounds, then how can your coolant ever escape when the atmospheric pressure outside the radiator is 14.7 pounds at sea level?

Is your cap pressure actually 21.7 pounds?

If you test your radiator at 15 pounds pressure, are you actually testing it at 29.7 pounds?

When your tire gauge reads 16 pounds, do you actually have 30.7 pounds of pressure in your tires?

Enjoy your coffee! At what altitude and pressure does it not boil at 212 F?

EDMO

Edited 2 Jul 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[C5Engineer 1170]

Ed when I googled the part number it came with or without the cap. I already have a Rotax 13psi cap that I bought to replace mine but it was the wrong size for my existing radiator. Bear Perkins sells the 13 PSI cap or I bet you could find one at Autozone/Oreilly's. As far as your Physics go.....  Nope I got nuthin

[C5Engineer 1170]

Leni hook me up with that T part number when you get a chance. I poked around on the Artic Cat cooling schematics but couldn't find it...too many of them damn sled models!

 

I just got off the phone with Murle Williams. His aluminum radiators are $295. He said they weight in right at 2lbs which is half of a stock one and they cool 20-30 degrees cooler than the stock Kitfox radiator as well.

[akflyer 1427]

I will get the part number in a few for you!

[akflyer 1427]

Part number for the tee is 0616-065

 

[EDMO 1078]

Leni,

I went to the top of Mt. Evans, Colorado, with my Uncle - He told me that when the WPA was building the stuff at the top of it (guessing 12-13.000 msl) that they had to boil the coffee down below and bring it up to them because water would not boil at that altitude - I don't know either.

EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

Some recipes on the back of a box have a different boil time for above 6000ft msl. Leni thanks for that part number. I'm guesssing that on a system this small the airspace under the cap is enough for expansion to take place? Also why I am thinking of it what did you use that worked well to make that gap between your radiator and the fuse? I was thinking some longer bolts and piece of aluminum tubing would work. Mine is just bolted straight through the floorboard and is currently flush with the bottom of the fuse. Thinking moving it down some is in the card after your experience and the way an Avid muffler sits.

[akflyer 1427]

Joey, your over square rooting it again mr

 

Think car systems, snow machines etc.. As the fluid expands, it will push through the tube under the radiator cap and into the coolant recovery bottle.  When the engine cools, it pulls the fluid back into the system.  Even when I had a spendy rotax "expansion tank" on mine, it still pushed fluid into the recovery bottle.  It did away with the spendy borrowed rotax tank and gave it back to Bob in favor of the cheap snomachine one that works just the same.

 

Damn, I bet even after you get out the AF your still gonna have that flight engineer square rooting brain thing going and we are gonna spend years trying to beat it out of ya

 

If you suddenly have troubles logging in one day, try to log in as "rocket surgeon"  your user name may suddenly get changed one day hahahahahahaha

 

:BC:

 

Edit:  I went to the local hardware store and picked up some teflon bushings that are 1/4" ID 1/2" OD and 1" long.  I also used some super duper SS 1/4" bolts from the no so AN rack next to the bushings.  If your belly radiator is tight to the fuse, I would venture to say that 99% of your cooling is being done by the cheek radiator, and the only benifit your getting from the belly radiator is increased coolant capacity, not really any increased cooling unless you put a scoop on that belly radiator like a P51... or one of the KF radiator fairing/scoops.

 

[Av8r3400 1179]

I put one of these on my Kitfox when the squirt bottle supplied by Sky-Screw pissed me off for the last time...  Less than $12.

[herman pahls 9]

My Murle Williams aluminum radiator is bolted flush with the fuselage bottom on my Model 2 without any scoop or fairing.

Most I ever see is 165 degrees at sea level on the southern Oregon coast with the 582 thermostadt installed.

Herman

[akflyer 1427]

The kitfox does not have a lip on the bottom of the cowl that deflects air away from the bootom of the fuse.  The kitfox was always designed for the belly mount radiator.  The avids were designed with in cowl radiators and have a nice big lip on the bottom of the cowling to draw the air through the cowling and pull it out the bottom... this dumps the air right over the radiator mounted to the bottom of the fuse UNLESS it is hung below the bottom of the fuse at least 2", or unless a scoop or shroud is built over the radiator to pull that air back into it and through it.  Atleast, these are my findings on my plane after dicking with it for 3 years having intermitent cooling problems.

 

[C5Engineer 1170]

Can someone post a picture of where they plumbed the cylinder head vent tube into the system on their 582? Leni the only pic I could find of that T piece shows two smaller outlets like it's a double T not just one.

 

~Rocket Surgeon~  

[akflyer 1427]

hang on, I will get out the crayons and draw you a picture

 

Yes on the part number I gave you there are TWO nipples in the tee, however, only ONE of them is drilled.  Arctic cat uses the same part for multiple sleds and some need two hoses others only one, so the part number I gave you has only one of the nipples drilled out.

 

 

[C5Engineer 1170]

Now see how was I supposed to know that....hahaha. I guess I could of blocked off the other port with your crayon. Which color should I use for that? Crayola or Generic? Break it off or leave it sticking out.....

 

0616-064..one number off but here's what it looks like.

 

 

In all seriousness THANKS Leni!! You just saved me at least $100. Parts are the on the way to add to the ever increasing pile I'll have waiting for me when I get home. Having too much time on your hands and internet access is not good on the wallet!

[akflyer 1427]

Joey, I feel your pain bro!  I feel like it is mandantory for me to have presents waiting for me every time I get home   and when it is slow at work, I day dream about all the crap I want to do to the plane, but then when I do get home, I end up just going out and flying the piss out of it telling myself that the mods will have to wait for a rainy day

 

The one mod that I will get done this time home will be to get the in cowl radiators installed.  I went to the local FBO to get some baffling material for the radiators... till they told me it was .25 a square inch.. I shit myself then walked out empty handed   I think I will just use some .025" aluminum to make the baffles!