Sandblast, wire brush, or soda blast ????

[Tree top pilot 13]

My fuselage has some light flash rust on a lot of tubes from handling and sitting for almost a year. Question is that the local guys know nothing of FAA standpoints on soda blasting. I would tend to think that sand blasting would create gazilions of places for a stress riser. But I have seen other planes sand blasted and are in the air. Or would you get down to Lowes

and get a few wire cup brushes for the right angle grinder? I know this would be docter death if it got away from you....but may be the easiest and fastest way round. What do you guys think?

[EDMO 1078]

My fuselage has some light flash rust on a lot of tubes from handling and sitting for almost a year. Question is that the local guys know nothing of FAA standpoints on soda blasting. I would tend to think that sand blasting would create gazilions of places for a stress riser. But I have seen other planes sand blasted and are in the air. Or would you get down to Lowes

and get a few wire cup brushes for the right angle grinder? I know this would be docter death if it got away from you....but may be the easiest and fastest way round. What do you guys think?

As soon as the welding is finished on mine, it will go for "light sandblasting", and within 24 hours be sprayed with self-etching primer followed by 2-part epoxy finish coat. I could do this myself, but it is a bitch to do at home.

The aluminum elevator tube should not be sandblasted. And, never use aluminum-oxide to blast aluminum, but it is OK on steel, but more expensive than using the Play Sand from Lowes with the rocks screened out of it. You can save money by putting a cheap tarp on the ground and recylcling the sand. a little hand-sanding is OK too - I would not use the wire wheel.

ED in MO

P.S. You are homebuilding - Dont think there are FAA standards for anything you do - But good to go by AC43-13 standards, and AN hardware. The FAA didnt certify "kitchen pots" for firewall parts, but the stainless ones work, and are "airworthy", and that is all you are concerned about. (airworthy and SAFE)!!!!

ONE LAST COMMENT: SODA-BLASTING is usually done with water - That is good for aluminum - BUT WATER MAKES STEEL RUST !!!!!!!

Edited 17 Sep 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[Tree top pilot 13]

After some discussion with the guys at Timco aviation , they said it was becoming an alternative to media and glass bead blasting in some cases. They warned me of sandblasting will change the hardness of the outside of the tubes...like shot peening and making it harder to inspect weldments. He said it abraided the metal and would hide things from the eye. They said the important issue was the removal of all salts and application of rust inhibitor.Hold tight Also spoke with a local gent that will come to my door and take care of the job. His fee is $140 / Hr. He stated that the job would probably take 1 to 2 hours to complete. I think he will be coming out this weekend.....He blasts the parts dry...and then pressure washes the salts away and applies the rust inhiting agent at the same shot. He said he would use the compressor to blow everything dry at no extra charge. Said he finished a PA-18 last month. He knows airplanes a good bit too.

Edited 18 Sep 2012 by Tree top pilot

[EDMO 1078]

After some discussion with the guys at Timco aviation , they said it was becoming an alternative to media and glass bead blasting in some cases. They warned me of sandblasting will change the hardness of the outside of the tubes...like shot peening and making it harder to inspect weldments. He said it abraided the metal and would hide things from the eye. They said the important issue was the removal of all salts and application of rust inhibitor.Hold tight Also spoke with a local gent that will come to my door and take care of the job. His fee is $140 / Hr. He stated that the job would probably take 1 to 2 hours to complete. I think he will be coming out this weekend.....He blasts the parts dry...and then pressure washes the salts away and applies the rust inhiting agent at the same shot. He said he would use the compressor to blow everything dry at no extra charge. Said he finished a PA-18 last month. He knows airplanes a good bit too.

The "aviation guys" are probably used to working on spam cans. Glass beading is used on aluminum. Light blasting will not hurt your 4130 steel tubes, or hide defects.

Enjoy the offer of approx $300 for blasting your fuselage - By the time you finished doing it yourself, you would give $1000 NOT to have to do it again!!(been there and done that)

Get some paint on it asap and dont handle it with bare hands before painting.

Dont use gray primer because you cant see where you have missed spots.

ED in MO

[John_L_Seagull 0]

I've used Soda blasting quite a bit over the years

Soda blasting can be done dry or wet

It is the best "None abrasive" way of blasting anything,

to remove paint, corrosion, biological contaminants, oil, grease, carbon, and many other coatings

Soda Blasting uses compressed air to propel the media onto the area to be cleaned.

When the media comes in contact with the contaminant on the substrate,

the sodium bicarbonate particles explode.

The resulting release of energy disrupts the contaminate surface leaving the substrate completely unaffected

Other processes,

such as sand blasting,

damage the underlying surfaces.

They tend to cause “oil-canning†which is a destructive warping or bending of the metal substrates

it also cause heat/friction which warps metal and steel

Soda blasting usually includes having to use vinegar and water to clean up the extra soda bicarbonate up

it chemically reacts with the soda

Then the part or parts need to be heated up,to evaporate the water so no rust will form on the cleaned up parts

I've soda blasted steel and aluminum,rubber,grease etc.

it will clean up grease,make old rubber moldings look new

It will free up seized rusted parts,bushings etc.

If used accordingly it is an impressive medium for blasting

Used in Corvette shops for blasting

it can blast of each layer of paint and or primer....one layer at a time

It is used to remove spray paint graffiti

it can remove spray paint from Vinyl siding on a house without damaging the vinyl siding

IMHO

It is the least destructive way of blasting anything,

and is very versatile in that it can blast steel,aluminum,glass,rubber and grease

It is however,very expensive to use

My last project used about 100 dollars and hour worth of Soda

and I spent almost 5 thousand dollars on just the soda itself

May sound expensive,

but on a car worth almost a hundred grand when finished... it is a small price to pay

and saves so much work compared to using sand or any other way of cleaning parts for paint

even sandblasting causes major work getting things ready for paint after blasting

My last project was a 1961 Thunderbird ,retractable rag-top

The ragtop assembly was totally seized with rust(numerous bushings etc.)

soda blasting freed up the parts like brand new(the top now folds and opens perfectly and is ready for paint)

The front end was dropped out and soda blasted,grease and all

the front end components were perfectly clean and paint and "Grease" free

ready for primer and paint,other than replacing a few parts of coarse on the front end

The whole frame and body was separated,61 TBird is uni-body

frame and body was soda blasted

I've blasted with all kinds of sand,glass beads,crushed walnut shells(excellent on aluminum)

and soda blasting can replace all medium mentioned above

Other than it's cost for the actual Soda to blast with

it is by far the best blasting material out there

Soda blasting is definitely worth looking into

I plan on re-skinning an Avid Mark IV this coming winter,

and I will be soda blasting the entire frame and wings for paint before reskinning

It will get into ever nook and cranny there is,

and the vinegar will clean it out from ever nook and cranny

once the vinegar does not chemically react with the soda no longer it is ready to wash thoroughly and dry with heat

Then it's basically ready for etching and primer

I'm speaking from over 30 years of restoring experience, using ever blasting medium known

but of coarse... this is all just IMHO

ps:

Thought it might be worth mentioning...

Dry Ice blasting is suppose to be even better than Soda blasting

But I have no experience using dry ice to blast with so never mentioned it

Edited 21 Sep 2012 by John_L_Seagull

[akflyer 1427]

How does the soda do on powder coat? When I did mine, the powder coat was a real bitch to blast off. I ended up using a wire wheel to knock it down, then blasted over that to give me a good anchor profile.

Sounds like a kick ass car restoration project, post up some pics! Most guys on here are into more than just airplanes so we like to see pictures of all the toys

[EDMO 1078]

How does the soda do on powder coat? When I did mine, the powder coat was a real bitch to blast off. I ended up using a wire wheel to knock it down, then blasted over that to give me a good anchor profile.

Sounds like a kick ass car restoration project, post up some pics! Most guys on here are into more than just airplanes so we like to see pictures of all the toys

Did a lot of blasting in my day too, both on aluminum and steel in certified repair shops, but the soda stuff is unknown territory for me.

How many thousands of antique steel-framed planes do you think are flying today after being sand blasted or blasted with aluminum oxide?

AND, has anyone ever checked on Kitfox and Avid, to see how they blast the frames before painting/powder coating?

ED in MO

Edited 22 Sep 2012 by Ed In Missouri

[Av8r3400 1179]

AND, has anyone ever checked on Kitfox and Avid, to see how they blast the frames before painting/powder coating?

ey

They don't do any. And they also <<GASP>> MIG weld all the airframes without a post heat treat...

[EDMO 1078]

ey

They don't do any. And they also <<GASP>> MIG weld all the airframes without a post heat treat...

And that is probably why my KF1 broke AT THE WELDS when it was wrecked.

ED in MO

[Tree top pilot 13]

quote name='Ed In Missouri' date='22 September 2012 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1348344883' post='8440']

And that is probably why my KF1 broke AT THE WELDS when it was wrecked.

ED in MO

Edited 23 Sep 2012 by Tree top pilot

[EDMO 1078]

quote name='Ed In Missouri' date='22 September 2012 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1348344883' post='8440']

And that is probably why my KF1 broke AT THE WELDS when it was wrecked.

ED in MO

This is the ONLY instance of a Ridge runner accident I am aware of reported besides Kenny's chase that got him... actualy model 3 two passenger I was told. Look at the tubes... a lot of the structure seemed to try and hold it's own. The cabin is the weak link...it is a lot longer box structure from the earlier model 1 and 2 versions. These are mig welded as well. So...in normal ops I think it is not an issue. One can burn a piece of metal beyond safe use with a Tig if you don't know what you are doing. Once the metal has turned that ugly gun metal grey over the weld area and adjascent tube....well it's done. If you get a nice multi-colored weld bead [ blues and yellow hues ] over the entire weld ... then you are most likely to have a good , safe joint. I test scrap tube welds with pull test machine before welding the actual job... or other simple tests are easy to perform. We don't have to have samples lab tested.....yet.

RR3 crash

Edited 23 Sep 2012 by Ed In Missouri