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Mine has the aluminum leading edge wrap.. I think it probably adds more weight and thats about it.  Steve Winder tried to talk me into ripping it off when I was rebuilding the wings but I left it on.  So far, they have taken some pretty good knocks and are not dented.  If I had it to do again, I would probably leave them off.

Not Low Bid - Repair place recommended by insurance adjuster - maybe buddy?- Supposed to be an "expert" in Luscombe repair -   but we found out different about that...

You figure!

Damage estimate was $25K - a few more K would have totaled the bird - He would be better off that way - Going to sell it once it is fixed, because no longer "perfect".

EDMO

Welcome Jon and congrats on the new project! Sounds like you're not totally unfamiliar with building, is this your first Avid?

Very good call on opening up the wings for an inspection. No varnish, yikes! Curious when you say "a couple of missing small corner braces", are you talking about gussets epoxied in between the spar and drag tubes? I don't think the step was in the manual but it's so easy and beneficial most builders have added them. (see pic)

As for the aluminum leading edge top skins, sure there are aerodynamic benefits but, at HH speeds, does it really matter? I've read sooo many disgruntled owners wishing they hadn't done it, certainly many more than opined they wish they had. Once the aluminum is dented you are s-c-r-e-w-e-d until you re-cover the wings. I suppose you could always cut in an inspection ring below and have a go at it, but I question if you would ever be able to get it to be un-noticable again. I would surely go with the assumption that it's a 'when, not if' proposition that the aluminum would get dented somehow.

For the most part, I tend to listen to those that have the experience so I am using 1/32" thick epoxy varnished larch marine ply on my current long spar Avid+ Speed wing build. A local builder here did that on her Avid C model Speed wing and not only does it look great, it definitely will a good knock without a problem. And, I'm talking about a -HARD!- knock, the kind that'll hurt your knuckle. She also used one thin layer of PolyFiber polyester padding over the ply and also the wing tanks, for both chaff protection and to avoid having to Bondo, Super-Fil and sand the f/g wrapping around the tanks smooth. Sure seems superior to me.

Personally, unless the aesthetics of a smooth top wing are important to you, I wouldn't bother with either as the extra false ribs between each wing rib on the HH prevents most oil canning already. I guess it would also boil down to how fast you want to get back in the air. Whether aluminum or ply, the L.E. skins really are an unnecessary, time intensive extra step with a lot of fussy work getting everything faired in nicely. It is critical that the leading edge transition is smooth to the spar to prevent disturbing airflow over the top of the wing.

Welcome to the circus, post up some pics for the rest of the clowns when you get a chance!

Sounds like someone took their chances... maybe with the low bid... and got bit alright. Why a 'perfectionist' would allow anyone other than a well-known specialty restoration shop at his award winning show plane is beyond me. 'Perfectionist' and 'cheapskate' are mutually exclusive IMHO, and I suppose I would know because I've been called both more than once!

I purchased a unfinished Mark IV Heavy Haulerkit last year and it had the wings in pink but it was not well done. I wanted to see what was under the fabric to determine the condition of the construction. It had two broken flaperon tabs, a broken small rib, no varnish on the wood and a couple of missing small corner braces. The overeall construction was sound. The repaiars have been made. The leasing leading edge was not covered in metal. I am ready to recover the wings so the question is, metal or no metal. I asked C5Engineer and he said it was not needed but said to ask all of you for an opinion. The wing does have the 4 mini ribs between the primary ribs.

Thanks,

Jon

I think that when they got the radar feed in the tower it has made them lazy.. It is way easier to look at the screen and see where I am in relationship to where I say I am when I call in... So The controller is trying to push the guys that fly in and out of the airport a lot to get the transponder so he wont have to grab the binocs. and look out the window to find me when I call in at XX position. I think I am going to stop turning on the wig wag landing light too so it makes it even harder for him to find me.    FWIW, there is only one controller out of the 3 or 4 that work there that EVER asks about transponder.  I will see if the one I gave my brother to put in his pacer is still around.. I know he never installed it.  I pulled it out of my Avid when I was rebuilding it trying to lighten that pig up!

See that Ed, it just goes to show ya that the answer to the worlds problems can be figured out over a few beers! 

Kenneth, I am stuck in the frozen north watching the weather turn to total shit outside my bedroom window.  No drinking till I get on the freedom bird Tuesday, but I still get a good laugh outta this topic!  I was not sure what to do next.. hit someone over the head or poke them in the eye.. Whoop Whoop Whoop..

It's nice to have a crowd here that can laugh as we go back and forth on issues!

Ron,

       I was wondering how you can fold the wings with the Finch tips sticking out - Do they have to overlap?

I think I like removable tips better - guess you could make Finch removable tips.

EDMO

Doug,

Thanks for the words...I was really angry, but I'm over it. I just don't want others to make the same mistake!

Here is a question for you...they proudly display an FAA stamp on the front cover, does that mean that the FAA approved the process, or the final product? If it is the process how could they allow incorrect instructions? Since when does the FAA not regulate every aspect of maintenance? You could argue that because we are Experimental it does not apply, but Superflight is used on certified aircraft too.

Finch tips...they are very sharp! They have grabbed my shirt more than once! Ed, you are right, they could be downright dangerous at eye level, that is an argument for a taller gear I guess you could round off the tip if you wanted?

They are going to look good though.

Thats awesome Doug thanks , I first got to get my HS level then I will see what I can and cannot do,more than likely will be doing some sort of manual trim since its all cover up , gives me a good idea how its suppose to go though. Thanks again

Did I mention that this was supposed to be a "4-month" repair, and has taken over a year.  I think he said "18 months"!

He had more than I listed.

EDMO

Wow, sounds like someone is in for it! Glad that they will at least meet to discuss it though. Anyone that says they are professional and then does that type of work deserves a little "visit".

Got an initial report on my friend's "repaired" Luscombe - He took 120 photos and started calling head of insurance and all the others involved:   Remember, this was a "award-winning show-plane".

1.  oilcan dents in belly and another panel - one was strengthened by a riveted angle - still shows dent

2.  red and other colored screws where white should be, or other way around

3.  lower windshield attach strip not drilled, and white silicone put where screws were originally- paint on roof damaged

4.  fuselage was painted with doors closed - paint don't match

5.  engine was not protected - has heavy coating of sanding dust and paint on it.

6.  prop bolts overtightened - not torqued.

7.  overspray on upholstery.

Meetings are scheduled with insurance.

EDMO

Sounded like he didn't move the carry thru tubes, rather he repositioned the vertical spar pin bushings slightly within the carry thru tube. I wouldn't think that being off center by such a small amount presents any structural concerns. Probably had to enlarge the coves cut into the spars to increase clearance for folding too. More than one way to skin an experimental cat.

I don't really care for the electric trim tab - guess it is OK if you have an indicator of some kind - I designed mine for manual trim tab - got a servo that I would sell tho.

EDMo

Willis - here's the page from the Avid manual on how to retrofit electric elevator trim plus a few pics from my Mk-IV that might help. I canned the manual bowden cable and ran nylon tubing through the cable bushings as a protective chase for the servo wiring.

Yeh, and I'm only starting with my 2nd Bud Lite - It is a left-hand bottle, but I'm holding it in my right hand - but if I turn my chair around backwards, then it is on the left side - right? 

Did you know that in some foreign countries, it is considered Bad Manners to change hands with your knife and fork, like we often do, even with propellers?

EDMO

Joey, Please inform your Dad that "He is a Shit-Disturber"!  HA! 

Seriously tho - I would like to hear about and see some photos of the HC in the "other aircraft" posts.

ED

Ah-Ha - Knew there was something wrong with swapping tractor props - You cant put a Rotax prop on a Soob - The Hub wont fit - but guess you could swap blades if they will work in a Soob hub.

Figured that out after 3rd Bud Lite! 

I'm finished.....

ED

Is anyone else up drinking on a Friday night and laughing their ass off about this thread? I admit it's a brain twister but it is still funny to watch it unfold!

Thanks for the laugh guys!

Well heck - first you turned the Soob around so it turns left - then you swap the Soob tractor RH prop for a Rotax tractor prop which turns left, and mount it like a tractor prop backward instead of pusher  - OK.

No wonder I retired - getting too old - forgoet to take memory pills and cant find my calculater../.....

Thanks,

EDMO

Leni,

Just for kicks I went to look up ENA on the chart just to make sure. You are completely correct that you don't have to have a transponder to go into Kenai. It is a Class D airport. Most of them don't even have the capability to see you since they don't have radar capability anyhow, some do, but it's not common, at least down here in the lower 48.

Just thought you might want to know you were well within your rights to not have one. I'm still perplexed by the audacity of the controller to tell you, you should have one though.

Through my career I've known quite a few tower operators, most are good guys, some are old fuddy duddys, but I do realize most of them aren't pilots and really have no idea what it's like to be on the other side of the microphone. I've had some question why I didn't get back to them instantly when I was in a critical phase of flight. I always felt like just telling them I still have to fly the airplane. Further than that in my mind is when they think they "control" me as a pilot. Remember folks, even the all mighty FAA has told us all to Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, and in that order!

mY "quote" still don't work - guess you eliminated it to cut down on traffic?

Leni,

     for your prop flush question - We torn down and did a O/H on all kinds of constant-speed props - VERY thorough and careful on inspections in a Certified Repair shop - The boss made decisions, I just worked on them.

     For the best answer to your flushing question, I suggest you call Jerry Alsup, owner of Dominion Propeller in Anchorage and ask him.  He is very easy to talk to.  Tell him I referred you to him.

     Sit down when you hear the price of an O/H.....You may want to put a Soob  and WD in it.....Ha!

ED Ashby

Duh - You turn the engine around too - I never flew a pusher - Guess my HC would have flown backwards! 

I TINK I GOT IT NOW!   No I don't------If you turn engine around it turns toward left side of plane now, and it was turning toward the right side, and the prop is made to turn toward the right side, but by mounting it backward, you now have it turning left with the same blades - that just don't sound right?......

I DONT GOT IT EITHER, unless the blades are symmetrical.

Why do they sell blades as puller or pusher type if it would work either way?

EDMO

"We'd appreciate it anyways"? really? I don't even know how to respond to that. Several of my aviation related college courses were specifically about equipment, ATC requirements etc. Not one time did I ever hear or read of a tower that can request you to have equipment just because they feel like it. I stand by your side when calling the guy a douchebag!

Ed. When you worked in a prop shop, how did you guys flush out a prop that was run on an engine that had metal going through it?  as in, how did you flush it.  Or do you do a mandatory tear down and OH of said prop and there is no way to flush the old oil out?  I would think I would be able to flush it out and have it usable, but the IA is being a pain in the ass on this one..

Leni,

     I guess I spent too many years working in a prop shop - I think of props like the "real" ones - I know about model plane props, but not about Ivo blades - have never touched one - wouldn't the nickel edge be on the trailing edge if reversed?

Got me confused now!  Ha!

ED

no, not if you flip the prop.. the same side of the prop will be facing the front of the hover craft as it would if the engine was in an aircraft in the tractor configuration.. think of it as the side the wind will hit in forwards motion.  all that will be different is the side if the prop that will be touching the engine.  The subbie turning right in the tractor config, will now be turning the prop to the left in a tractor install.  Therefore, the same prop will need to be used as that on a rotax 2 stroke instal using a rotax gear box.  The leading edge of the prop needs to turn to the left. 

In the tractor config, your sitting behind the prop and your looking at the "back" side of the prop from the cockpit looking forwards.  The "back" of the prop is bolted to the engine / gear box.  Now put that in the pusher config, still turning the prop to the left as viewed from behind.  You now have to have the "front" side of the prop bolted to the engine.  This makes that tractor prop (left hand prop from a rotax 2 stroke gear driven installation) the correct one in the pusher configuration because of the rotation you have using the belt drive. 

Clear as mud?