180 HP Kitfox

[C5Engineer 1170]

http://generalaviationnews.com/2016/02/01/titan-powered-kitfox-makes-first-flight/

I don't really see Kitfox competing with Carbon Cub like McBean is hoping for. I am sure that climb is awesome but the thing has to weigh a ton and burn twice as much fuel as a 912. 

Edited 2 Feb 2016 by C5Engineer

[RobS 52]

Not sure about fuel consumption, but at least twice as heavy as the 912uls

[gregpro50 64]

Interesting but not practical.  Really heavy and probably has 10 gallon per hour burn.

[EDMO 1078]

Probably glides like a rock, and no way to flare if fan quits turning - and everyone thought the 100hp Soob was too heavy

Seems like these "Kitplanes" are evolving from Dean Wilson's small, economical, $7K Avid kits to the $100K price of the factory "Spam Cans".

EDMO

Edited 2 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

I personally don't think they have a chance at the super cub or carbon cub guy. It's a just not the same to them, they like the looks and feel of those particular planes. I think Ed is right, it wouldn't be much of a glider if/when that 340 quits turning. Now if they redesigned the wings maybe they could do something like that but I'm not seeing it. 

[Av8r3400 1179]

I guess you guys really don't understand that this airframe in question is really designed to handle and balance a Lycoming O290, which is only slightly lighter than the 340 in the article.  It will glide and flair, power off, just fine.   If you have ever seen the 912 fwf for a late model Kitfox, you would notice that the engine mount looks like something akin to a Pilatus Porter.

Yes it will be heavier than a 912 powered plane.  Yes, it will burn more fuel, but with 26+ gallons on board that won't be an issue.  The Magnum did just fine with an O360 installed.  Why is this different, other than its a more refined and engineered design.  I will be willing to bet it will out perform a stupid cub in every phase of flight.  

And for the record, yes a 230# Subaru car engine IS too heavy for an Unmodified early Kitfox or Avid. 

[EDMO 1078]

I guess you guys really don't understand that this airframe in question is really designed to handle and balance a Lycoming O290, which is only slightly lighter than the 340 in the article.  It will glide and flair, power off, just fine.   If you have ever seen the 912 fwf for a late model Kitfox, you would notice that the engine mount looks like something akin to a Pilatus Porter.

Yes it will be heavier than a 912 powered plane.  Yes, it will burn more fuel, but with 26+ gallons on board that won't be an issue.  The Magnum did just fine with an O360 installed.  Why is this different, other than its a more refined and engineered design.  I will be willing to bet it will out perform a stupid cub in every phase of flight.  

And for the record, yes a 230# Subaru car engine IS too heavy for an Unmodified early Kitfox or Avid. 

I will be very happy when I can weigh my Soob engine and set the record straight for TKF!

I know that the NSI turbo Soob in my Kitfox 1 weighed more than this one.

EDMO

Edited 3 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[C5Engineer 1170]

Okay say it turns into a badass plane. A turnkey Kitfox is already pushing 6 figures. What's it going to cost to build one of these? I guess if people buy them than good for the company. It just stinks when they take a proven design and push it out of the realistic realm for many people. Base price on that engine is just over $27k. 

I am writing this from the garage as I watch the $225,000 ICON LSA fly over my house. They are being built about 8 miles from my house at KVCB. 

Edited 3 Feb 2016 by C5Engineer

[EDMO 1078]

Okay say it turns into a badass plane. A turnkey Kitfox is already pushing 6 figures. What's it going to cost to build one of these? I guess if people buy them than good for the company. It just stinks when they take a proven design and push it out of the realistic realm for many people. Base price on that engine is just over $27k. 

I am writing this from the garage as I watch the $225,000 ICON LSA fly over my house. They are being built about 8 miles from my house at KVCB. 

I totally agree Joey - The old "build it cheaply in your garage" concept has turned into a "We want your lazy $$$" contest!

EDMO

[Fly-n-Low 181]

I guess you guys really don't understand that this airframe in question is really designed to handle and balance a Lycoming O290, which is only slightly lighter than the 340 in the article.  It will glide and flair, power off, just fine.   If you have ever seen the 912 fwf for a late model Kitfox, you would notice that the engine mount looks like something akin to a Pilatus Porter.

Yes it will be heavier than a 912 powered plane.  Yes, it will burn more fuel, but with 26+ gallons on board that won't be an issue.  The Magnum did just fine with an O360 installed.  Why is this different, other than its a more refined and engineered design.  I will be willing to bet it will out perform a stupid cub in every phase of flight.  

And for the record, yes a 230# Subaru car engine IS too heavy for an Unmodified early Kitfox or Avid. 

And according to Titan the 340 weighs 245 dry. Doesn't see too heavy per horsepower. How much HP does that 230# Subie motor put out!!?

I'd like to see more pics of the plane. I wonder how much ballast they had to add?

[lostman 198]

My EA81 Subaru engine was 105 HP rated. I know that it's not that much more weight for a 2.2 liter that can be over 160 HP though. Basically keeping it the same weight or less than the 340. Personally having flown around 60 different makes and models the Soob engine was one of the smoothest I've ever flown behind. Something about the big belted redrive that takes the harmonics out of the equation. Plus I only burned 3.5 GPH as compared to the 10-12 that the 340 will burn. No brainer for me, that's for sure. 

[EDMO 1078]

I guess you guys really don't understand that this airframe in question is really designed to handle and balance a Lycoming O290, which is only slightly lighter than the 340 in the article.  It will glide and flair, power off, just fine.   If you have ever seen the 912 fwf for a late model Kitfox, you would notice that the engine mount looks like something akin to a Pilatus Porter.

Yes it will be heavier than a 912 powered plane.  Yes, it will burn more fuel, but with 26+ gallons on board that won't be an issue.  The Magnum did just fine with an O360 installed.  Why is this different, other than its a more refined and engineered design.  I will be willing to bet it will out perform a stupid cub in every phase of flight.  

And for the record, yes a 230# Subaru car engine IS too heavy for an Unmodified early Kitfox or Avid. 

And according to Titan the 340 weighs 245 dry. Doesn't see too heavy per horsepower. How much HP does that 230# Subie motor put out!!?

I'd like to see more pics of the plane. I wonder how much ballast they had to add?

I don't think the Soob weighs over 190/200 - just a little more than the 0-200, 100 hp Continental. 

But there is not much to compare between a 100 hp $2500 Soob  and a 180 hp  $27,000 base price engine.

EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

My EA81 Subaru engine was 105 HP rated. I know that it's not that much more weight for a 2.2 liter that can be over 160 HP though. Basically keeping it the same weight or less than the 340. Personally having flown around 60 different makes and models the Soob engine was one of the smoothest I've ever flown behind. Something about the big belted redrive that takes the harmonics out of the equation. Plus I only burned 3.5 GPH as compared to the 10-12 that the 340 will burn. No brainer for me, that's for sure. 

Lostman,  Looks like we posted about the same time and I cut you out of the thread of posts - now everyone can read yours.  

BTW:  A 300 hp Soob WRX engine weighs about the same and would fly circles around that 180 hp $$$$.

That WRX engine was like getting 400 hp out of a 283 Chevy engine - It Rocks!

 

EDMO

Edited 4 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[Av8r3400 1179]

...and it will maybe last 10 hours in an airplane at 75% of that power.  Ed, I thought you of all people understood car hp is not comparable to airplane hp.

The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.

[EDMO 1078]

...and it will maybe last 10 hours in an airplane at 75% of that power.  Ed, I thought you of all people understood car hp is not comparable to airplane hp.

The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.

And, flys as fast on 50% power!  Ha!  I know how "certified" plane engines are tested, for 150 hours,mostly at part-throttle, and it don't even compare with the WOT tests on the car engines that Subaru did.

That's OK - I cant afford one of those "ordained" aircraft engines or the new $uper kits - just going to chug along with my heavy old cheap Soob while all the $$$$ pass me by... I think Dean Wilson made kits for the working people, and Kitfox now makes them for the loan companies!

EDMO

Edited 4 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[Fly-n-Low 181]

And, flys as fast on 50% power!  Ha!  I know how "certified" plane engines are tested, for 150 hours,mostly at part-throttle, and it don't even compare with the WOT tests on the car engines that Subaru did.

That's OK - I cant afford one of those "ordained" aircraft engines or the new $uper kits - just going to chug along with my heavy old cheap Soob while all the $$$$ pass me by... I think Dean Wilson made kits for the working people, and Kitfox now makes them for the loan companies!

EDMO

I don't think I am in the market for one either, but I am not going to down anyone for doing so or being able to afford one. And I could afford one and am a "working people".

[EDMO 1078]

And, flys as fast on 50% power!  Ha!  I know how "certified" plane engines are tested, for 150 hours,mostly at part-throttle, and it don't even compare with the WOT tests on the car engines that Subaru did.

That's OK - I cant afford one of those "ordained" aircraft engines or the new $uper kits - just going to chug along with my heavy old cheap Soob while all the $$$$ pass me by... I think Dean Wilson made kits for the working people, and Kitfox now makes them for the loan companies!

EDMO

I don't think I am in the market for one either, but I am not going to down anyone for doing so or being able to afford one. And I could afford one and am a "working people".

I used to be a "working person" too.   I just meant that originally the kits were a cheaper alternative with more lenient rules than the factory planes that were getting too expensive to buy and maintain for some folks.   Now, the kits are getting up in the same price range as the spam cans.

EDMO

Edited 4 Feb 2016 by EDMO

[Fly-n-Low 181]

I hear ya Ed. Frankly I think they should put that $10K tundra gear on it too!!! LOL!!!

And if I was looking at spending that kind of jack on a plane, it would be a 180hp Citabria. One day.

[EDMO 1078]

I hear ya Ed. Frankly I think they should put that $10K tundra gear on it too!!! LOL!!!

And if I was looking at spending that kind of jack on a plane, it would be a 180hp Citabria. One day.

I remember when the Citabria first came out, there was a long waiting line at the airport for guys who wanted to fly them.  Great Plane!

EDMO