DAR Inspector

[lv2plyguitar 172]

I am having a little trouble with my DAR inspector because of his lack of experience with amatuer home built. He said that my AVID Flyer falls under part 91. This means that as part of my air worthiness inspection process I haft to have a full equipment list including but not limited to instruments, strobe box, battery, survival pack, etc. and the weights of all.

What are your thoughts on this.

[EDMO 1078]

I am having a little trouble with my DAR inspector because of his lack of experience with amatuer home built. He said that my AVID Flyer falls under part 91. This means that as part of my air worthiness inspection process I haft to have a full equipment list including but not limited to instruments, strobe box, battery, survival pack, etc. and the weights of all.

What are your thoughts on this.

My first thought would be to pick up the phone and call Anchorage FAA. If they agree, get a copy of FAR 91 and read it closely - I know that under certain conditions, part 23 and commercialy operated planes have to have an equipment list, but really didnt think that our little birds needed that for airworthiness.

Survival packs are required in the Alaska Supliment, is that under part 91?

You could call the EAA and ask for an advisor to talk to.

I would sure like to hear the answers - never heard of this before.

I will lie like hell before I take all my instruments out and weigh them!!!!!!!!!!!

They are included in Empty weight, except the survival pack.

I've got some extra instruments I could weigh for you - sure between all of us we could come up with some figures for you........

ED in MO

Edited 19 Feb 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[lv2plyguitar 172]

My first thought would be to pick up the phone and call Anchorage FAA. If they agree, get a copy of FAR 91 and read it closely - I know that under certain conditions, part 23 and commercialy operated planes have to have an equipment list, but really didnt think that our little birds needed that for airworthiness.

Survival packs are required in the Alaska Supliment, is that under part 91?

You could call the EAA and ask for an advisor to talk to.

I would sure like to hear the answers - never heard of this before.

I will lie like hell before I take all my instruments out and weigh them!!!!!!!!!!!

They are included in Empty weight, except the survival pack.

I've got some extra instruments I could weigh for you - sure between all of us we could come up with some figures for you........

ED in MO

Do Avid Flyers even fall under part 91? I have been following the EAA checklist religiously to get ready for the inspection and the part 91 thing has threw me for a loop.

[horsepower 24]

When I got my Skyraider inspected the DAR told me that I needed a material list of everything that went into the build,unless the kit manufacturer had been assigned as a qualified kit builder.This went into effect in 2009.Luckly I had already purchased my kit prior to 2009.Skyraider says they are on the FAA list now.It has something to do with the 51 percent rule so if your kit is not on the list then you have to prove that you built more than half of the airplane.Bunch of more crap we have to deal with.Good Luck Randy

[EDMO 1078]

Do Avid Flyers even fall under part 91? I have been following the EAA checklist religiously to get ready for the inspection and the part 91 thing has threw me for a loop.

The annual condition inspection falls under 43, part D. 91 is airworthiness, I think - been too long since I studied them and then that was not for experimentals - just part 23 certified.

Try calling the local FAA offiec and talk to another inspector.

The EAA should give you some kind of answer to stand your ground on - as long as you can quote a rule, the DAR has no reason to deny you.

ED in MO

[dholly 718]

Those 'requirements' sound applicable to a standard airworthiness certificate, not a special airworthiness certificate (E-AB).

HERE is a link to one DAR's E-AB inspection checklist, plus his explanations of any items not a regulatory requirement.

[lv2plyguitar 172]

The annual condition inspection falls under 43, part D. 91 is airworthiness, I think - been too long since I studied them and then that was not for experimentals - just part 23 certified.

Try calling the local FAA offiec and talk to another inspector.

The EAA should give you some kind of answer to stand your ground on - as long as you can quote a rule, the DAR has no reason to deny you.

ED in MO

They told me to just do what he says even though its not required. I have no format though. From what I understand the DAR wants the equipment listed with the arm and moment for the weight and balance calculations. I have already contacted the FAA and they are going to have an answer for me in a couple days and let me know if its even required.

Edited 19 Feb 2013 by Avid Heavy

[lv2plyguitar 172]

Those 'requirements' sound applicable to a standard airworthiness certificate, not a special airworthiness certificate (E-AB).

HERE is a link to one DAR's E-AB inspection checklist, plus his explanations of any items not a regulatory requirement.

On form 8130-6 section 4 is for experimental. The form itself does not say that it is special A.C. Am I filling out the wrong form?

Thanks

[lv2plyguitar 172]

When I got my Skyraider inspected the DAR told me that I needed a material list of everything that went into the build,unless the kit manufacturer had been assigned as a qualified kit builder.This went into effect in 2009.Luckly I had already purchased my kit prior to 2009.Skyraider says they are on the FAA list now.It has something to do with the 51 percent rule so if your kit is not on the list then you have to prove that you built more than half of the airplane.Bunch of more crap we have to deal with.Good Luck Randy

I think that AVID Flyer is on the list so no worries there.

[dholly 718]

On form 8130-6 section 4 is for experimental. The form itself does not say that it is special A.C. Am I filling out the wrong form?

Thanks

It's the correct form. Section II, Certification Requested - allows for selection of either Item A, Standard Airworthiness Certificate, or Item B, Special Airworthiness Certificate. (FAA) Advisory Circular No. AC 21-12C dated 9/7/2012 provides guidance and information needed to prepare and submit Form 8130-6, Application for U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.

If it was easy, it wouldn't be a government form...

[EDMO 1078]

They told me to just do what he says even though its not required. I have no format though. From what I understand the DAR wants the equipment listed with the arm and moment for the weight and balance calculations. I have already contacted the FAA and they are going to have an answer for me in a couple days and let me know if its even required.

All those things except the survival kit were there when you did your Empty Weight and Balance.

You also needed a Most Forward and Most Aft W&B (CG), which would include the survival kit, I guess, but what happens there when you change items in the kit - you arent going to do a new W&B as long as you are under the max weight for that storage area.

If you remove or replace anything (like instruments) later on, you would have to log if there was or was not any "significant" (FAA term that no one can explain) change in W&B. That's my best A&P opinion - but I am not the DAR or FAA. I do belong to the EAA.

ED in MO

edit: Had a while to think - Believe this DAR is asking for you to make a TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheet) and these are only required on certified production aircraft - not on experimental amateur-built.

ED

Edited 20 Feb 2013 by Ed In Missouri

[SuberAvid 617]

Jeff,

It sounds like you have a nightmare; getting a DAR who doesn't know the difference between an E-AB and a certified airplane. I had to do W&B empty and with farthest forward and farthest aft possible loading conditions and at gross weight. No requirement to get weights and arms of equipment separately from the empty weight airplane W&B. It's a bad situation to be stuck between a DAR who doesn't know what he is doing in regard to E-AB and the regs that don't apply. You may be right but that doesn't mean he will pass the plane. You might want to call John Davis at the Anchorage FSDO. He used to be a DAR and did my inspection before he went to work for the FAA. He is in the Anchorage EAA chapter and and has built a couple of Vans RV's and is currently building one and flying another of his completions. He is a good guy and may be able to give you some good advice if your DAR gets too crazy.

Randy

[EDMO 1078]

Any news about the DAR inspection?

ED in MO

[lv2plyguitar 172]

Any news about the DAR inspection?

ED in MO

DAR passed my plane today. Big Orange is now a little puddle jumper.

[EDMO 1078]

DAR passed my plane today. Big Orange is now a little puddle jumper.

Congrats - I asked a couple of questions about it on your new post. Very curious as to how, why?

ED in MO