Handling the 9460 Hysol....

[Tree top pilot 13]

Now that I have gotten the spar tube issues sorted, it is time to assemble something. I have spent over 1K in parts and fuel and too many hours to get to this point. Now I did experiment with some 9460 today at work, purchased a new 5 ld parcel so I have plenty to have on hand. I applied the material to a mock rib and tube joint and reworked the fillet as follows with very good looking results....glue leveled out and was smooth. Handles easily and here are my test results.

Mix at 11:00

Applied product after placing in plastic bag at 11:15

Made fillets after 12:00 > Self leveled after 10 minutes

Made more fillets after 1:00 > Self leveled after 10 minutes

Made more fillets after 1:30 > Self leveled after 10 minutes

All tests were with initial batch as mixed 50/50

Now when does the bonding limit occur? I would assume one could get all the ribs and the drag struts in place by on hour of time with no worries. Just trying to get myself adjusted to this product. I had to apply heat to a couple of test pieces to see if accelerated cure would take place....it did. Heated adhesive to 125 deg F and it had what I would describe as a "full cure" in 2 hours. Seems to be a very strong bonding agent from my observation. Just nervous about getting everything right....the first time ! Hope I am not with this.

BTW what did you abrade the spar tube with for bonding as far as grit # ?

Edited 11 Jan 2012 by Tree top pilot

[dholly 718]

You say you mixed 50/50 but the epoxy didn't harden for almost 2 hours? If you have fresh product, something is not right. I've had a 50/50 mix go off in less than 10 minutes... to the point of being totally unworkable. Are you 'eyeballing' or using a postal scale with tare feature to accurately measure by weight? Mix exactly 1:1 by weight using a digital scale for accuracy, don't 'eyeball' it! Mix thoroughly until uniform gray color with no black or white streaks. Exothermic heat buildup during and after mixing is normal, working life can be extended slightly by placing mixture in a freezer. At room temperature, 90% of full cure properties are attained within 24 hours, full cure after 72 hours. IIRC, I did my wings 4 ribs at a time. Any more and I could not get the garrot and straight edges set before the epoxy went off. Wetting a finger with denatured or isopropyl alcohol to smooth a filet around the glue joint works best.

[edit] Maroon abrasive pads to clean and 360 grit to scuff. I haven't updated my Avid+ builder log in a long time, since I bought the Kitfox(s), but you might find some helpful info there. LINK

Edited 12 Jan 2012 by dholly

[Av8r3400 1179]

After helping my friend building his wings, I would never use this product with out the "double barreled" squeeze gun and mixing nozzles for application. The gun isn't cheap (~$60 I think) but worth it's weight in gold for making fillets and not wasting the epoxy.

[dholly 718]

$60 for a plastic syringe? Ahhhh, no.

Just grab a heavy duty freezer baggie from the pantry and spend the 60 clams saved on cold beer.

May I recommend a nice Sierra Nevada Celebration Seasonal IPA.

The last 6 or 10 went right down.

[Av8r3400 1179]

Hardly just a plastic syringe, Doug, and definitely worth the money in the epoxy you will save. Especially when that bag of epoxy is starting to trip before you can use it.

I'll try and get a photo of it next time I get over to Daves place.

[dholly 718]

Sorry, I've used the Hysol in cartridges and I'm not sold. IMHO, the price of convenience(?) makes an already expensive product -extremely- expensive. Kitfox sells 50ml tubes for ~$15 and the 2 quart can kits for ~$100. With ~950ml in a quart, the equivalent amount of Hysol in tubes cost ~$570 (38 cartridges x $15). 5x ?? OUCH, grab yer ankles!

For me, I only mix what I need and find that takes such little effort I just can't justify the premium for cartridges. Clean up really can't get much easier, just toss the empty baggie! Most importantly though, I want to retain the ability to adjust the mix ratio. Reducing the hardener when I was trying to glue ribs during a hot, humid 95*F day let the epoxy go off much, much slower... which really helped to get everything aligned properly for the cure time. Helpful for me, as I tend to make a lot more mistakes when hurried unnecessarily. So...

Cost savings using cans vs. cartridges of Hysol 9460 = $450

Ability to adjust the exothermic and thixotropic properties = $PRICELESS

The cold beer was appreciated on that day too, trust me.

[Tree top pilot 13]

I did use the materials that came with the kit....I have not opened the new, good stuff from my supplier here locally. It has a date of 6/11 of manufacture. I think the material I got with the kit is old or out of date and that is what I had experimented with. Seems like I need to check everything ! I am very happy to have experienced help on hand...thanks again. It did set up nice after an overnight stay. From what you tell me....I had better plan on assembling 2 or 3 ribs at a time. I am somewhat slow and cautious...investigating that all is right as it goes with anything construction related like this. I will try and up a wing soon. I think I have read enough of the different manuals and looked over every build pic I could find. This forum has been a great asset to me.....maybe one day I will be able to shake a few hands of the great guys on here. As far as keeping the glue cold....I will just leave the heat way down when I build...maybe that will give me a bit of extra time to set things right. Picked up a bottle of acetone to clean the spar tube with at the bond site. The PPG533 seems a bit harsh for the task. I do have other solvent based degreasers that will evaporate quickly....but unsure if they are safe to use here. Paint related materials {R/M - Diamont products}.

Edited 12 Jan 2012 by Tree top pilot

[C5Engineer 1170]

Anybody know how far one of these cartridges will go? I just need a enough to do 5 beads the length of my landing gear legs and cabane struts.

 

[Av8r3400 1179]

You're just gluing the trailing edge of the faring material? You should be able to get that out of one of those cartridges. Are you using the mixing nozzle? That will give nice tight control.

Edited 25 Aug 2013 by Av8r3400

[High Country 69]

I also only got through about 4 ribs before it was setup too much to work it nicely. start with smaller batches and work your way up you will soon find out just how much you like to work with given your specific ability and working conditions. take your time and its really easy to make it nice. if you have the ability to adjust the climate I would set it around 65* and go with it. I used the baggie method and it worked great, cut just a very small part off the tip to make the "spout?" if you don't like the size of bead just cut it bigger. then wet a finger (you are wearing your protective rubber gloves right?) with rubbing alcohol to smooth everything out. lastly I marked my ribs in the order I wanted to glue them and bounced around I think I started at each end then did the tailed ribs making sure you have your tail spacing exact then the in between ribs, one rib had to go over the lift strut attach brackets so don't glue that rib until the rest are fully cured and you can get the brackets set where you want them. keep us posted on your progress

 

-Robert-

[EDMO 1078]

My glueing probably wont win any awards for neatness, but the simple method I use is based on two sizes of flat wood sticks with round ends - I call the small ones "popcicle sticks", and the large ones, "tongue depressors" because when I was growing up that is what they were used for. I buy them in the crafts section at Walmart.

My method is to use a large stick in each can and weigh the mix in grams on an electronic scale I paid $25 for at Harbor Freight. Then I put the sticks together and stir the mixture, using another large stick to add cotton flox about 1 stick-full for every 20 grams of mix, and mixing that well.

After that, I dob and spread the mix onto the parts with the large sticks, following that with the small sticks to smooth and make the fillet or clean up drops. A short time later, I wet my finger and go over any spots too ugly to leave alone. Micro towels wipe off any dribbles or streaks.

Rubber gloves? Like washing your feet with your socks on! Alcohol will clean your fingers.

EDMO