Turbo

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Everything posted by Turbo

  1. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    Es buen consejo.  That's exactly where I'm at.  Just putting around, visiting friends, making new ones, enjoying the scenery.  Tailwind?  Fly slow and let God do the work.  Headwind? Crank up that overstuffed chainsaw, and scream your way along.  These engines are generally regarded as robust, if flown right.  But sure, ya gotta know how to not murder them, as it may decide to take you along with it.  As Allen pointed out, even lycosaurs are vulnerable to being murdered.
    My bird has the bellyrad, wheel pants, and an IVO prop.  The bellyrad partially shields the unfaired LG struts just behind, tucked up against the belly.  According to my prop code, the IVO in cruise produces no thrust at all from the inner 1/3 to 1/2 of the blade radius.  In fact, the inboard sections act as an inefficient windmill to help turn the prop so the outboard sections can produce thrust.  This may sound bad, but also doesn't add propwash to magnify the drags of excresences near the fuselage,  in fact those contributions to drag might even be diminished.  The bird feels slippery to me, and I know I can improve it.  This is a great toy to play with, both in the shop and in the sky.  We are so lucky to have such fine toys!  Gotta love it!
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  2. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    Thanks for that advice, Leni.  I do have a leaning setup on my engine, basically a copy of Cowlove's approach, using a small, 12V diaphragm vacuum pump to lower float-bowl pressure.  I have a rheostat knob on my dash labelled "chemtrails", that energizes the tiny vac pump.  Pump-off, it reverts to ambient.  So far I have not done anything but pattern flying, trying to wire my landings before my highly critical wife climbs aboard.  I have only used the leaning circuit to shut the engine down, and to smooth the idle in summer when DA is high..
    Regarding the IFA, any extra weight on the schnozz is to be avoided, as I'm clear my bird is noseheavy already.  And I just reinstalled the OI system & oil tank.  $1000 more in my pocket is good too.  Like I mentioned earlier, my next step will be to investigate what might be the best prop pitch for how I fly the bird, which currently is verrry conservatively, and mostly from tarmac.  If you don't use IFA, maybe it's due to the skis' drag hit?  I would, however, assume that floats are draggy too, and that both argue against the IFA, since lower L/D tends to require the engine to work harder at a given flight speed.  But I get it:  water takeoffs were a bitch without it!
    I have only the single, 14 gal tank, and am, in my old age bladder-limited, so I think I have the right setup.  Not trying to re-invent the wheel; just trying to work things out for what I think will be my kind of flying.
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  3. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    So, what's the weak link here in this non-screaming-meemie scenario?  Would I be lugging the engine?  Overstressing the conrod bearings?  Or would I just be running it so cold that it would crud up in short order?  Or have a seisure?   Clearly if I'm trying to actually go someplace I'd need to spin it up a bit more.  Spun up, it sounds cool, like a turbine engine.  I'm just thought-exploring the max endurance scenario.
    The IFA, behind a 4-stroke, I agree, is more the provence of the faster bird.  The sensitivity of this 2-stroke to oversped, low-throttle conditions, not to mention the hit in fuel consumption, seems to change the rules a bit.  A class-3 medical is $100 and a pair of glasses away.  Glasses are on order.  Booga-booga!  Note that at least two of our most experienced members fly with the IFA.  Just sayin'
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  4. Turbo added a post in a topic On 2-stroke oil...   

    Thanks, Chris.  Here I can get an API-TCW3 oil that's also rated API-TC relatively cheaply.  Since it is devoid of solids, and apparently they are not needed since our engines are liquid cooled and don't seem to run that hot anyway, I think I will go that route.  Did you find it necessary to pull the pistons in order to clean out the ring grooves?  If so I'll eventually need to get the roller keeper tool.  I'm really contemplating getting the pistons ceramic coated on top first opportunity.  Has anyone used an ultrasonic cleaner for the pistons?
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  5. Turbo added a post in a topic Hirth 3202   

    Such a deal!  Doesn't that engine have a different cylinder material that grows/shrinks closer to the aluminum piston thermally?  Is this similar to the kind of silicon alloy aluminum used on the Chevy Vega?  After they worked out the metallurgy my understanding is that it proved quite durable.  It'll be interesting to see how things go for you, departing the golden path as is were.  And no coolant to leak!
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  6. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    For sure, that nosebleed climb could save a fool's life getting out of a box canyon some day!  
    Now I'm wondering if with an IFA on front it might be possible to float about the sky at the 582's efficiency peak at 3500 rpm!  With my fixed-pitch where it is, my prop calculation estimates that the prop's absorbing about 20 hp at somewhere close to 80 mph in level flight.  Just a thought.  I also think Leni makes a good point regarding keeping things clean in the upper cylinder,  piston tops, and especially rings.  I just installed a fuel totalizer, and I'm keen to find out where the airplane is happiest, and what altitudes & airspeeds to shoot for to maximize range.  Then there's the issue of headwinds/tailwinds.  Please pardon me for waxing nerdy here, it goes with the territory!
    Hey, let's hear it for lunch money!
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  7. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    For what It's worth, I translated the brochure Rotax data into a form perhaps more understandable to those of us who are not fully into the metric system as yet.  The power vs. RPM curve labelled "Propeller Curve" was initially a bit of a mystery to me, but ultimately seeing how it differed substantially from certain of my prop calculations, for conditions I have flown, I have decided it represents the maximum power available from the engine at a given RPM.  The thermal efficiency plot is interesting.  Many years ago in engineering school we were told that car engines are only about 25% efficient overall.  Although I'm sure that number has improved substantially since then, I was surprised that the 582,  a lowly 2-stroke, did so well.  So here they are.  Enjoy! 
      
     



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  8. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    Great points!  You Alaskans impress the hell out of me!  Down here at 46 deg N, I'm not flying.  Too cold!  Maybe after I finish installing a heating system... 
    One thing that I forgot to include in my long-winded discourse is the issue of ignition timing.  4-strokes, at least the more sophisticated ones, feature some combination of vacuum and centrifugal spark advance.  Both are aimed at advancing the start of the combustion event as the engine speeds up, and/or intake manifold absolute pressure is reduced.  With the 2-stroke, things get complicated, and exhaust- system scavenging tends to drive the advance curve, often actually retarding the spark under these same conditions.  With the 582 the exhaust system is de-tuned for a more even power band, and the engine has no spark advance mechanism at all!  In either case, with a 2-stroke, we're stuck with essentially the same problem with high-speed, part-throttle operation.
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  9. Turbo added a post in a topic Issues flying behind a 2-stroke   

    Allen,
    Having four cylinders vs. the two of the 582 should provide a little mercy, but I would agree: the principles are the same.  I wonder if 4-strokes see any EGT rise under part-throttle overspeed conditions?  One would think this could be hard on exhaust valves!  Perhaps it's effectively masked (or overwhelmed) by continued cylinder cooling prior to and during the exhaust stroke.
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  10. Turbo added a post in a topic Vertical rudder tube issue   

    Come to think of it, I too have seen and wondered about this fabric wrinkle.  A couple of light tubes from the post close to where that diagonal joins, forward to the tubing clusters on the sides would provide lots of stiffening.  Deficient design for sure.  Thanks, SuberAvid, for the explanation.
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  11. Turbo added a topic in Two Strokes   

    Issues flying behind a 2-stroke
    Note: I wrote this to clarify my own understanding of how things work, and I think I have the essence captured.  I apologize in advance to those with more experience than I with these engines; I am not trying to install myself as the grand pooh-bah here.  If, by my relative lack of 2-stroke flying experience there’s some tidbit of physics I have missed, or have something wedged into my mind sideways, I certainly invite discussion.  The egoless scientist humbly seeks the truth for the benefit of us all, not the puffing up of his own self-esteem.  Good God, that’s tacky!  So here goes:
    The 4-stroke engine has the luxury of a full half-rotation in which to extract the fuel’s heat energy.  For the 2-stroke, with the low-pressure, low-leverage bottom of the power stroke cut away, less time is available so the duration of the combustion event becomes more critical. 
     The time interval required for a combustion event to occur is shortest when the air/fuel ratio is close to stoichiometric, and cylinder charge pressure and temperature are high.  Too far from stoichiometric on the lean side robs heat from the combustion process, slowing the reaction, while operating on the rich side robs heat too, but also creates a host of intermediate products of the incomplete combustion, like CO, particulates, etc., expensively cooling and slowing the reaction.  High altitude or part-throttle operation lowers the charge pressure, molecular mean collision frequencies, and hence lowers the reaction rate.  In the absence of exhaust-pipe resonance effects, 2-stroke thermal efficiency has got to be maximized when full combustion of each charge occurs as far ahead of exhaust port opening as possible (without pinging, of course).  This explains why the 2-stroke works most efficiently when the engine is slowed down by load, and is why leaning back to near stoichiometric at high altitude is important, as is not over revving the engine at part throttle in cruise or descent.  Part-throttle over revving lowers charge pressure and reduces time available, causing the combustion process to finish up relatively late in the cycle, wasting fuel and raising EGT, which looks like, but is distinct from lean-of-stoichiometric operation.  This potentially delivers the thermal double-whammy of less cooling by charge expansion and combustion still ongoing as the ports open.  This thermally stresses the pistons, and favors ceramic-coating the piston tops as a protective measure.  Piston cooling only comes from the underside’s exposure to the cooler incoming charge and heat conduction through the piston skirts to the cooler cylinder walls.  The piston’s aluminum has very high thermal diffusivity, but a relatively low melting point.  Here, the EGT relative to limit serves as a guide.  Yes, these engines like to run with carb slides open!
     We’ve all heard of those model airplane 2-strokes that turn 30,000 rpm.  This works since the much smaller cylinder diameter substantially reduces the characteristic time required for the combustion event to occur (assuming the same speed for the flamefront).  So how about a greater number of smaller cylinders?  Would a different engine design help here?  As it turns out, holding engine displacement constant, characteristic combustion time varies inversely with the cube root of the number of cylinders divided by the two we have, while scrubbed cylinder area goes up by that same cube root.  So frictional losses go into this tradeoff.  Going to a 3-cylinder engine only reduces characteristic time by 13%, and it would take 16 cylinders to reduce it to ½ of its 2-cylinder value, while engine scrubbing friction would double.  There’s very little kindness there, unfortunately.  The additional complexity of more cylinders would increase cost and weight too. Oh well!  Let’s look instead at the propeller.
     If the (fixed-pitch) propeller is set up for brisk climb performance, it will be very much unloaded in cruise, and only able to absorb a fraction of the engine’s power potential.  I was surprised to find out by how much.  My prop calculations confirm that my 3-bladed 72” IVO prop, with the pitch set to absorb all 65 hp at Vy in climb will only be able to absorb about 15 hp in 85 mph cruise at 5000 rpm.  This may not be enough power to even go 85 mph, and is very likely an over-rev condition, the only cure for which is more prop pitch. (BTW I am running at a higher pitch than this!). The cleaner we make our airframes, the worse this problem becomes, as the cleaner airframe demands even less thrust power for a given speed in level flight.  Ground setting the prop to a higher pitch will obviously reduce climb performance as the engine’s max rpm drops, but thrust power available for cruise at, say 5000 rpm increases dramatically, increasing cruise speed a little (at high speeds, achievable speed varies roughly with the cube root of the thrust power.).  If you really want the best of both worlds, the answer is the IFA prop, but now you no longer legally have a light-sport category airplane.
     Another way to mitigate this disparity is to go to a smaller prop diameter or perhaps fewer blades.  This requires you to increase prop pitch in order to properly load the engine. At the higher blade pitch, the prop may be partially stalled at takeoff, although now it’s less sensitive to forward speed, and will unload less in cruise, allowing the engine to not overspeed as much.  This is due to simple geometry, as changes in blade element angle of attack corresponding to changes in forward speed are smaller at the higher blade angles and pitch.   But turning slower means less potential power from the engine.  There’s got to be an optimum in there someplace, but it’s likely different for different folks, depending on how they fly their airplane.  Hopefully the optimum is not at the sickly climb performance of a C-150, as this would totally destroy our street cred as a STOL airplane! 
     Incidentally, calculations for my 72” IVO show that going from 3 blades to 2 is impractical since this makes the prop too small, causing serious blade-element stall and horribly low efficiency when the prop is pitched to absorb 65 hp at Vy.  The alternative of cutting a prop down is risky in that you can’t glue it back together if you cut off too much.  Then there’s the sensitive prop-balance issue. I’m not too keen on this approach yet.
     At this point I will start feeling out the tradeoff between climb and cruise performance.  It occurs to me that I have a lot of climb performance to comfortably give away, but I have not yet flown my little Avid with two of us onboard.   My gut feel is that the STOL variant may not be as slow a cruiser as previously thought; it’s just that most of us are not keen on trading away much of our stellar climb performance.
     
     
     
     
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  12. Turbo added a post in a topic Opening some new dialogue on speed mods   

    Thanks, Buckchop. Good stuff!   I have this reference.  Note, however, that the diameter of the tail struts is 0.41" (jury strut is 0.385" diameter) puts us well below the Rcrit in the table.  At sea level, standard day, and 80 mph, Rd is only about 25,500 for the tail strut.  This puts us squarely on the LEFT side of the table, stuck with the higher Cd numbers for these strut shapes.  While a tapered tail helps, perhaps lopping off 40% of the drag, much more benefit is possible by scaling up a NACA symmetrical airfoil in t/c, then applying it over the strut as a hot-wired foam-cut shape.  Will a NACA0033 shape work under these conditions?  Yes, but can we do better with lower t/c?  Likely yes.  Need to look into low Rn strut data.  
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  13. Turbo added a post in a topic Opening some new dialogue on speed mods   

    Upon digesting this further, it looks like using NACA0027 (27% thick) strut shape at 2.5" chord, one could reduce 2-D strut drag to around 6% of that of the original round tail strut.  Similar results could be obtained for the jury struts as well. Small roughness due to manufacturing (cloth weave) and of course bug splatter will help here, as a laminar boundary layer would actually increase drag.  Either glue the fairing to the strut, so it won't rotate, or center the circular cutout as far forward as possible, but ahead of 25% chord, so it will want to align with the wind.
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  14. Turbo added a post in a topic Opening some new dialogue on speed mods   

    Without the wood fairings, keep it rightside up!  Structural value of the wood fairings is as stiffeners against bowing and potential column failure under negative Gs.  Otherwise we might need inboard & outboard jury struts - yuck!
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  15. Turbo added a post in a topic Opening some new dialogue on speed mods   

    Thanks, CD.  Good stuff!   
    On low-hanging fruit: 
    Obviously, any forward-facing steps  or flats should be rounded over. This will halve their drag contributions.
    Just adding a long tail to a round strut may help, but reducing the angular extent of the cylindrical forward end will do even more to enable attached flow, as will lowering the t/c of the strut section below the standard 33% by adding chordlength.  In this flow regime the near-body  boundary layer wants to be the wimpy laminar type, which is more susceptible to flow separation.  Small surface roughness ahead of max thickness may help artificially coax it into its more robust turbulent form, which will lower pressure drag if there is any flow separation.  Tufts and a GoPro will deliver the verdict.
    Needless to say, any excess flow ingested into the engine's cooling system beyond that absolutely necessary for cooling is a major source of drag.   
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  16. Turbo added a post in a topic where to start on my Model C   

    Guess I should pay a bit more attention to dates!  Oh Boy!
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  17. Turbo added a post in a topic where to start on my Model C   

    The added thickness in the tailfeathers due to added ribs may offer a very slight cruise drag reduction, but that's all.  That reduction is likely negligible compared to properly streamlining the tail struts and wing cabane struts, not to mention engine cooling drag as having the biggest payoff potential.  All at the cost of added weight & comlexity.  Personally, I'd blow it off as not worth the bother.
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  18. Turbo added a post in a topic MATCO Tail wheel shimmy   

    No, Belleville spring and split lockwasher are two different things.  Belleville spring, if laid on a flat surface, is raised on the inside relative to the outside.  It's like a shallow cone, with elevation varying with radius only.  When compressed, the outer edge is in tension, and the inner edge is in compression.  It's a nonlinear "softening" spring; spring rate decreases with deflection towards flat.
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  19. Turbo added a post in a topic The unquenchable EGT   

    Just completed the mod to correctly relocate my EGT probes.  Again, thanks to all, especially Vance.  I'm keen to fly it to test it out.  Looking at my carbs, it appears the previous owner knew what he was doing, setting it up slightly rich on the part-throttle needle, hanging 'em high, and with the next size larger (than Rotax recommends) needle jets.  It will be interesting to see what results.  With no cabin heat, though, fear of the dreaded freezerburn keeps me on the ground for now.  Plus, the days are so darn short, and my bird doesn't live at the airport.  Temporal overhead for launch is a bitch.
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  20. Turbo added a post in a topic Soggy Plugs   

    And man you gotta love the forward visibility!  It's likely not topped by any other taildragger.
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  21. Turbo added a post in a topic VNE   

    It's more fun just putting around the sky anyways, unless you're actually trying to get somewhere.  You Alaska flyers amaze me.  I must still be a little shy of trusting the 582 like you guys do.  Hey, I'm still trying to nail down my landings.
    BTW, it's easy to go fast when you're descending.  
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  22. Turbo added a post in a topic Pull start setup   

    Here's a close-up of the pulley mount, from the cabin side of the firewall.  The big black thing is the handle.

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  23. Turbo added a post in a topic Soggy Plugs   

    Oh, BTW, and returning to the original theme, I pulled the plane out of the garage for a little testing and, after almost 2 months of inactivity, the engine wouldn't start.  Pulled the plugs and, you guessed it, the electrodes of even the extended-tip plugs were covered in oil!  Gotta fly more often!  Working on a cabin heater, among other things.  
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  24. Turbo added a post in a topic Soggy Plugs   

    Testing can reveal important physics.  I have prior experence with surface tension effects, so not suprisingly my intuition was correct.  Once a paper filter is saturated with fuel or oil, any water coming along cannot saturate the paper, and becomes trapped.  Once the amount of accumulated water is such that it becomes able to cover all of the paper media, the pressure drop required to force that water through goes way up.  That is calculable once the pore size is known.  Good thing, Leni, that your fuel pump was strong enough!  In the pic below, I first saturated the filter in fuel, then added water on the upstream side.  The horizontal line visible in the picture is the water surface.  That water is trapped.   Accordingly, I have removed my inline paper fuel filter from behind the seat, then installed a fine screen filter (larger pore size), but placed downstream of the "header tank" gascolator, where it is protected from water.  The little screen filter was sized for smaller engines, but inline testing at full throttle showed its pressure drop to be negligible.  My oversize paper oil filter is located where it is easily inspected and replaced, but I really expect little or no atmospheric water to thermal-cycle-pump its way into my oil tank, thus ultimately piling up against my oil filter.  By-the-way, I also flow-tested that filter in oil, and it passed.
    So Leni & Vance:  I hear you, my friends!  No offense intended.  It's just a matter of how I process information.  As an old airplane engineer, you can trust that I beat the holy schidt out of the problem, per well-established tradition!  I too am very keen on my prop not stopping unexpectedly!

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  25. Turbo added a post in a topic Kaua’i vacation   

    My fave is definitely the pic with the birds.  You some kind of bird whisperer?  Congrats!
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