Turbo

Contributing Member
  • Content count

    342
  • Joined

  • Last visited


Everything posted by Turbo

  1. Turbo added a post in a topic Need some compassion...   

    So sad to see your beautiful bird hurt.  Glad you're o.k., Fred
    • 1
  2. Turbo added a post in a topic Spar Stiffener reinforcement   

    Really, with the huge differences in strength and stiffness between plywood and aluminum, these inserts are really spar crimp preventers, not stiffeners.  Their real role is to prevent compression buckling on the top of the spar tube under high G conditions.  If the spar tubing thickness is 0.049", one could use the next tubing size down (1/8" smaller O.D.) or an internal doubler to accomplish the same thing.  But really, all you need is something to immobilize the top of the thinwall spar at this max-stress span location.  -Turbo
    • 1
  3. Turbo added a topic in Technical tasks   

    Tool for "easy" bungee install
    The pictured tool greatly facilitated the installation of new bungees on my Avid.  The tool is a wooden gantry that stands on top of the seat tube, is stabilized above by a strap to a structural tube, and supports a block and tackle with 6:1 purchase.  Additionally, a small fairlead and clamcleat are used to quickly secure the line.  For line I used green paracord.  I used parts from my collections of yahtie and windsurf stuff.  In order to grip and stretch the bungee, I used a small camcleat mounted on a bent piece of 1/8" aluminum.   In mounting the bungees I was able to pull each wrap tight with the block & tackle setup.  Vicegrip pliers were particularly useful for clamping already-tensioned bungee cord to the landing gear on the bottom.  They held well and were easy to put on and take off.  For each wrap I tried to stretch the bungee as much as I could, so that in the final wrap the end loop would start off already through the aperture in the bottom of the airplane.  I then simply fed a 12-15" piece of paracord thru the eye of the bungee, tied a simple loop knot in the other end, and attached it to the block.  After lifting with the block & tackle, and maneuvering it onto the hook with a screwdriver, I simply untied the loop and pulled the paracord piece out of the eye.  Done!  Solo! (Jimmie Durante would wag his substantial nose and say "hotcha!".)
    Some other comments are in order.  Out of curiosity I stretch-tested a plain hardware-store bungee (Installed on the plane by a previous owner) for comparison with the Mil-spec Type-1 3/8" bungee cord sold by Aircraft Spruce & Specialty.  I was gobsmacked at the difference!  The Mil Type-1 bungee is about 3X stiffer, and will go up beyond 120 lbs per strand, whereas the hardware store stuff more-or-less stopped stretching around 35 lbs.  The Mil Type-1 stuff will stretch to double its 0-tension length.  Whatever you do, DON'T USE THE HARDWARE-STORE STUFF!.  My calculations indicate that 7 wraps of the Mil Type-1 bungees can handle a 3-G landing at my TOGW of 916lbs, but the outward gear deflection is almost 19 degrees from the 0-G gear position,  and the average bungee cord stretch is more like 5 inches!  This analysis even modeled the inward roll of the contact patch relative to the wheel as the gear splays out.  I was unable to stretch either bungee to failure, but would love to know how much tension they can take!  Online one can find many purveyors of different kinds of bungee.  If you insist on wandering off of the righteous path, I heartily recommend stretch testing, followed by analysis.  Avid's recommendation for the safety cables is to allow 3".bungee deflection.  I'd go to 5", or maybe leave them off like Joey did, just adding a bungee inspection to my pre-flight inspection list.  If you, like I, bought your bird used, I would definitely take a careful look at the LG bungees.  Are they single-flecked (hardware-store) or double-flecked (type-1)?  Is there adequate deflection capability in the safety cables?  (My airplane was a double whammy on these questions, and I needed to have my seat tube repaired after a hard landing.)



    • 0 replies
    • 709 views
  4. Turbo added a post in a topic Wing Testing   

    Interesting in that those wood pieces are really not stiffeners, but tube crimp preventers.  The curved steel attach plates for the wing struts likely serve the same function anyway.
    • 0
  5. Turbo added a post in a topic Solo bungee wrapping   

    Great idea, Fred!  Unortunately, my nearby friends tend to be little old guys like me.  I have, however found that by far the best tool for holding the tension on wraps already made is a pair of vise grip pliers!  I have an installation tensioning tool that shows promise too, but I need to first validate that my loop terminations will not let go at maximum extension.  If successful, I'll share some pics.
    • 0
  6. Turbo added a post in a topic Solo bungee wrapping   

    Hi Fred,
    The type-1 bungee from AS&S is exactly the one you mention, 06-12400.  I am thinking of making a tool to help with the installation.  I know I am no way strong enough to install them unaided.  If the tool is successful I will share it, as you did.  
    • 0
  7. Turbo added a post in a topic L.G. bungee blues   

    I've got to admit the analysis is incomplete, though.  I just got type-1 3/8"bungees from AS&S and they feel significantly stiffer.  I wonder how much tensile preload is built in to those bungees, and at what length ratio do they stop stretching.  Also, it would be reassuring to test my end loops to failure.
    • 0
  8. Turbo added a post in a topic Solo bungee wrapping   

    Bought type-1 bungees from AS&S, made up 90-in sections with loops on ends.  Marked off the 7 increments.  Tried to stretch the first segment to the mark.  Couldn't do it!  For this old, not-too-strong guy it seems impossible!  Especially with no real way to hold the stretched segment in place.  I am about to punt, and go buy non-type-1 bungee from the hardware store.  It's not nearly as stiff.   Altrnatively, I could put on fewer wraps.  The Canadian's axe-handle trick doesn't work on the Avid.  What have others done here in terms of mechanical advantage & holding?  I think I'll stretch-test the type-1 stuff to see if I can get away with 6 wraps instead of 7. 
    • 0
  9. Turbo added a post in a topic Wing Testing   

    Interesting that the brochure for the earlier STOL models have a Vne of 97 mph, and the sandbag test gives a load factor below yield of 5.9 Gs.  If ias is close to eas, and stall is at 40 mph ias,  guess what?  The Vne is really maneuvering speed!  Yes, Virginia, you can go faster in smooth air!
    • 0
  10. Turbo added a post in a topic L.G. bungee blues   

    JimChuck, you will likely have to drill some holes along the tops of your seat truss plates for the seat lacing ( maybe you already have!)  I was thinking of putting some high-quality plywood in there, using zip-ties along the outer edges, letting the bungees contain it inboard.  On my bird, the original builder put in split rubber tubing as a buffer on the bottom seat truss bar, but used small hoseclamps to hold the rubber hose sections in place.  This abraded the bungees' outer fabric sheath, and strikes me as a no-no!  I suppose rubber cement is about all one can do, as even zip-ties would likely cause abrasion.
    • 0
  11. Turbo added a post in a topic L.G. bungee blues   

    Oops!  In my enginerdly focus I forgot that a loop or two lie on top of others,increasing the preload and likely nulling out my 0.4 inch greater maximum deflection I got over the build manual.  It is important, however, that the cables allow full stretching of the bungees first, before coming into play.  I would consider the 3" deflection allowance as a minimum, and make sure my cable-stops were a little longer.  They were too short on my bird.
    And yes, I did hard-land my bird.  It's in the weld shop getting fixed.  Uggh!
    • 0
  12. Turbo added a topic in Technical tasks   

    L.G. bungee blues
    I was in the process of replacing my bungees, and thought I'd do a stretch test with the old ones to see how bad they were, and check out the engineering behnd their use as the landing gear springs.  In my stretch test I used a fish scale and tape measure to determine the spring charactrristics, Force vs. Length.  I zip-tied one end and looped the other around the fish scale's hook, then stretched it with a boat winch.  What resulted was a sideways S-shaped curve, showing what anyone who has used a slingshot knows: that a rubber spring eventually stops stretching at some load, even as load is increased.  The Hook's law spring constant is high at the low-force end, but also becomes much higher at the high-force end, and is lower, but slowly increasing in the midrange.  Weird, but likely related to  the molecular structure of rubber.  
    Knowing that a spring's stiffness is inversely proportional to length, I then applied the stretch data to the loop geometry of the Avid's landing gear.  It's convenient that in re-wrapping the bungees, the force required is totally manageable, due to the 7 wraps used.  Of course this means we are applying a preload.  At this point we are stretching the bungees to 132% of their no-load length.  Of greatest interest to me was the realization that the bungees stretch up to 172% of their no-load length.  It is here that the bungees stop stretching, even as force is increased further.  Half of the bungee-centerline wrap distance is 8.5", and with 90" no-load length and 7 wraps (14 strands) each strand's no-ĺoad length is 6.43".  Stetching stops at 172% of no-load length, so full extension should be reached at 3.4", not the 3" prescribed in the build manual!  The safety cable is only there to prevent total collapse, but if it's shorter than full extension, you risk bending &  crimping the thinwall tube under your seat; the tube the bungees wrap around, if you land too hard.  The bungees wouldn't be able to absorb the energy before the merciless cable comes into play!  That cable applies a point load to the tube, not distributed like that of the bungee.  
    So those are the results of my analysis.  Am I nuts?  I'm sure others in the group have thought thru this as well.
    Making up my new bungees, a special thanks is due to Fred, who showed an elegant approach!
    • 7 replies
    • 996 views
  13. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    Checked wing incidences with inclinometer & found them to be equal to within 1/10 of a degree, the precision limit of  my tool.  Also found an area on the port aileron where the trailing edge had been bent up, likely hangar rash.  That could explain the roll moment.  Bent it back down as best I could.  We'll see if I got all of the roll moment out.  This may take several iterations.  Turns out I have the older f7 mixer arms.  No matter; Just need more airtime.  If my new, stiffer trim spring works with some flap, I'll be tickled silly!
    • 0
  14. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    The Junkers- style flaperons have the advantages of the CP peak reduction of a slotted flap if rigged correctly, and of not inheriting the wing's tired boundary layer, but at our scale tend to develop their own wimpy laminar boundary layers, which limits their max CL,  and contribution to roll authority.  It may be possible to trick them into early transition to the much more robust turbulent boundary layer with an appropriate level of surface roughness, which is likely quite fine.  Teensy VGs could also be effective in this, but it's relatively easy to overkill the problem and make things worse.  In any case, there's only so much even a slotted flap ( in our case as an aileron) can do.  Having studied the kinematics of the mixer mechanism, I was somewhat unimpressed to see greater down deflection than up deflection as flaps are lowered.  I think there is a cure, with a different mixer geometry.  Leni says they overpower the elevator at the higher deflections anyway, so maybe it's a moot point.  Maybe they are just the ticket at 15 degs as-is.  I need more experience flying the bird.
    • 0
  15. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    I had the carbs apart and they are clean, including the idle jets.  The floats had sunk, so I had to buy new ones.  Gotta look to see what size those idle jets are, though.  Joey flies out of somehere near Fairfield, which has to be less than 100 ft elevation, so maybe the #50 idle jets is a good call right out of the box.  I too will be flying out of fields at less than 1000 ft elevation.  Totally agree re static idle rpm vs on final - part of why I had a tough time getting the bird down.  Trees at approach end of runway & short strip - bad combo for green TW pilot in unfamiliar bird.  Smooth at 1400 static is my new goal!  Next time The Dalles with 5000 ft, 100 ft wide tarmac!  Just loved putting around the verdant Hood River valley & hills, though.  This is why airplanes have such magic.
     
    • 0
  16. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    From y'all's comments, I must have come across as whinging.  My bad.  It may be the curse of being an old design engineer to always think design, and it makes one perhaps a bit more critical.  The Avid is what it is, and hey, I bought it!  I like the little bird, and am looking forward to flying it, and working to improve it where I can, like everyone else on the site.  My first flight was more exciting, almost scary, than I anticipated, but that will change as my mastery of the beast improves.  I have windsurfed the Gorge in winds gusting to 50+ mph, so I know I can do this, especially with all the experience y'all bring to the site, and for which I am grateful.  Obviously what I need is lots more time-in-the-cockpit.
    • 2
  17. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    Thanks for all the tips & info, guys!  Leni's comment re running out of elevator makes me wonder why Dean Wilson didn't start with the low-moment NACA 23012 and just find an acceptable LE shape mod to keep the high CL max while using a 2.5" radius.  My experience as an aerodynamicist holds that undercambering the undersurface can help up near the L.E., but further aft does almost nothing for max CL, while adding undesirable nose-down moment, especially in the aft end, near the T.E.  Oh well!  Maybe the best place for VGs is the H-stab's undersurface.  A flat-plate stab has got to have pathetic aerodynamics.  If only there was an easy way to seal the gap beteen stab & elevator.
     Thanks, Joey for the encouragement.  I will play around with idle mixture a bit more.  It's nice to know that smooth, slow idle is possible!  The internals of the E-box include a torsional softener like the C-box has, right? 
    Looks like I'll be making up new bungees.  Merci to Fred Stork for posting a great way to fab the end loops.  Love your videos flying around France in the springtime!
    • 0
  18. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    Again, the flaperons:  I was not too happy to find that the flaperon mixer geometry is such that, at higher flap deflections, the flaperon's down deflection is greater than the other side's up deflection.  Maybe I'm all wet here, but I think there's a simple way to reverse that nasty characteristic.  This would enhance safety and allow greater flap deflections for landing.  Wouldn'it be nice to have flaps we could actually use?  Currently, I'm unclear as to the advantages of these Junkers-style flaperons over the more conventional flaps & ailerons, aside from being easy to build.
    • 0
  19. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    I am planning to adjust the port wing twist.  Will use inclinometer as you suggested, for how much.  I have a series of springs of different stiffness to try for the trim.  Right away I'm going to the stiffest.  Ship wanted to dive; not enough decalage. I was only holding about 1/2 " left stick, so it's not too far out of rig.  Rough running was only on the idle jets, less than 3000rpm.  I was close to the Rotax " one turn" setting, so carbs were rich at idle.  I think I'll play with them some more before ordering a clutch, since engine-out glide is a safety consideration.  I wonder if this roughness is a C-box resonance thing.
    • 1
  20. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    Oh yeah, the flaperons:  I did not use them.  Previous owner & builder did nothing for trim, and this first flight I was also test-flying a first iteration version.  It didn't work, so I was wthout trim, which makes holding airspeed not-so-easy.  On top of this, I was holding left-stick to stay level, i had a cheezy com system, it was saturday, with traffic, including glider ops.  Hood river is a short, narrow strip, so I may have bit off a bit too much!  But what a nice, smooth, calm day!  Suffice it to say bird & pilot survived!
    • 0
  21. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    I've got the Maule tailwheel, which doesn't give the wings much AOA on the ground.  It seems the rough idle is due in part to some kind of engine-prop resonance.  It seemed like it wanted to shake unplugged all my instruments!  Is this a C-box only phenom, or do the other boxes have torsional impulse softening rubbers?  If your opinion is that the clutch is worthwhile and manageable, I reckon I'm in.  The 582 seems a robust little engine, if one obeys the rules:  1. Don't take off before achieving operating water temp,  2. Keep egt between 1000 and 1200 Fahrenheit, 3. Give it a little time to cool back down, and 4. Keep an eagle eye out for coolant leaks.  Seems simple enough.   Leni, thanks for the encouragement.
    • 2
  22. Turbo added a post in a topic 1st flt Avid - impressions   

    Thanks for the words of encouragement, JimChuck.  Mine is the C model, with empty weight around 470lbs.  After banging it in trying to land slow, I settled on 55mph for final.  Seems to me a clutch will give a big step between high windmilling drag and positive thrust with the clutch engaged, with no in-between.  Without, and with static idle set at 2300 rpm roughly, idle on final gave me a rough 3000rpm.  After touchdown, it didn't want to slow down!  I'm glad the brakes are weak enough to keep me out of trouble, since I had to use them to slow down.  I expect a clutch would help there, too.  The IVO prop has a sharp leading edge, which I expect would help reduce windmilling drag since the prop's backside would be stalled when windmilling. At least them little airfoils are stalled!  For a bird that small, that prop seems a monster!
    • 0
  23. Turbo added a topic in Close Call's and dumb stunts   

    1st flt Avid - impressions
    Celebrated Cinco de Mayo 2018 with first flight...yowtza!  Mine, N23PB is STOL taildragger with grey-head 582, 3:1 C-box, swinging 72" 3-bladed IVO.
    I've got to admit all this talk about groundloops had me fearing 1st flight, wondering if I too would immediately fall prey.  The good-news takeaway for me was the realization that the Avid has plenty of rudder authority on landing!  The one-person 25mph stall speed is pure myth.  Stall IAS showed up around 40 mph, with no steady-state stall per se, just a controllable mush.  Engine was smooth (above idle) and powerful, and P-factor is reminiscent of WW2 warbirds with their huge props. I found myself sideways on steep climbout before applying the required left rudder.  Just putting around the sky was great; down to 4000rpm I could hold altitude just fine.  4500 seemed a good cruise rpm.  In 1.8 hrs I burned just 5 gallons!  According to the Rotax data, the engine should be burning 3.3 gph at that rpm. Thermal efficiency is pretty good there as well - just below 30%!  But it goes down with rpm - to just over 20% at 6000 rpm.  I'll post fuel flow & thermal efficiency data in customary units if desired, translated from Rotax data in the metric system.  
    I could not do a graceful takeoff!  The bird ran along the ground, then ballooned up suddenly!  I clearly need practice!  Landing proved way more problematic.  The bird just didn't want to come down, and I executed a number of go-arounds.  The short, narrow runway demanded more of me than I expected: my landings were awful!  I will go elsewhere to practice!  And practice I must!  This bird was demanding, and I fear grace may prove elusive.   Hats off to you guys who fly her well!   
    Shaky Jake has nothing on the 582.  The cabin noise & vibration at idle (below, say 3000 rpm) were horrible.  I am contemplating a clutch to help with that, but need some inputs from those who have gone there.  What does a freewheeling prop do to landing approach?  How are taxiing and landing runout affected?  All-in-all, it was a very exciting day!  - Turbo
     
    • 55 replies
    • 8,383 views
  24. Turbo added a post in a topic Idle jet   

    I have the grey-head 582 with C-box 3:1.  The engine is smooth from about 3k up to wot, but the idle is rough.  On final, what would be 2300 rpm static is now 3000 rpm, and rough.  I have read lots of opinions on how to adjust the idle air screw, from 1 turn open, per the factory, to going leaner.  When I tried leaning it out, the roughness never left, but eventually the engine wouldn't run.   Where else should I be looking?  My engine only has 141 hrs on it.  What's the deal with the clutch?  Is it a centrifugal?  Does the prop not turn at idle?  How does that work out when taxiing?  I always thought the prop also serves as the flywheel.
    • 0
  25. Turbo added a post in a topic Compression numbers ?   

    Oh, and on the compression check:  I only got 90 or so on the first pull.  Apparently it's o.k. to do multiple pulls to get that compression number.  After 4 or so pulls I got my final numbers, almost 120 psi.  Maybe that accounts for some of the diffs we see between good-running engines.
    • 0