Have the forums all died?

[1avidflyer 2025]

Does nobody visit the site anymore or do they just all lurk?  Team Kitfox is almost the same way.  Even the face book groups have very few new posts on them each day.  Has interest in light sport aviation like our Avids and Kitfoxes provide died out?  I have thought that face book killed off the forums like this one and everyone had moved over to there,  but it's fairly quiet as well.  I know I miss the way it used to be here and on Team Kitfox 10 or 15 yrs ago.  JImChuk   (rant over)

[marksires 486]

I mostly lurk since I don't have an Avid anymore..

 

[Avidventurous 27]

Jim this is happening web wide. We had a very good horse riding forum that tended to be local to Phoenix area. It just withered away and died. IMHO, this trend sucks

 

[Av8r3400 1188]

I check in on both almost every day, but I don't have much to say anymore...

The Kitfox community has seemed to transition to nothing but $200k+ glass panel and autopilot poser machines, built in factories with pant jobs worth far more than my whole plane...

[Avid Bart 43]

I'm guilty of lurking as well. I check in every few days to see what's new but it has been quiet here the last few years. I have never really been a fan of forum type content on Facebook and now it seems every other post is a scam trying to rip people off.

Even aviation videos on Youtube are dead compared to five years ago. I think the Flying Cowboys died off with Draco.

[Good old number 29 199]

[Good old number 29 199]

I’ve been so busy working, that I haven’t even taken time to post pictures of the Model 4 I picked up. It’s been several months, now. It’s still on the trailer. It cranks over, slowly. No hour meter. Waiting for paperwork to finalize, before I jump in. I check the site regularly, but haven’t had much to contribute, unfortunately. 

I think that high costs have put a damper on everything, especially flying. Also, the Tik Tok generation is much less active than our previous generations. 

I recently had a conversation with my uncle, who owns a C180. He paid $9,600 cash for it in 1976. He was just a regular guy, but people could afford to do that, back then. Eight years later, in 1984, my Kitfox kit was purchased for just a bit more than that. Crazy levels of inflation during those years. Very recently, I made this deal to distribute Simonini motors. One of those is going to cost about the same as Uncle John’s 180, or that new 1984 Kifox kit, for just the motor package, with shipping. I don’t know how many people can pay that amount, in cash, but I’m guessing that the number of people with $9,600 to spend has not gone up much since 1976. It’s unfortunate, because credit card processing fees are 2.9%-3.5% of the whole purchase, including shipping costs, besides the interest the cardholder pays. We’re screwing ourselves a lot of ways by paying with plastic. 
 

Anyway, I’d been thinking a lot, along the lines of the original post. Thanks for bringing it up, Jim. I wish I had some insight into how to turn things back. It’s probably simple, like telling your kids to go outside and play, and not buying everything on credit. 
 

That was one of my major motivations for starting Straight Aero. It’s a small market, at best. But, I thought that I could help keep flying affordable by selling these motors at basically zero markup, and maybe that would allow more people to get out and fly. And, it might have been the best way to get my hands on a motor  for my own use, since they’re basically unavailable. 
 

But, the logistics are just plain crazy. Borrow money at 3% to buy inventory. Borrow more at 8% annually, and hope to sell what you bought, planning to pay it off, out of pocket, otherwise. The best local banks and credit unions jack up the exchange rate 2.8%, for the wire transfer (Wells Fargo calls it 4%-10%), plus the $50 flat fee for foreign wire. Import shipping adds 6% to the cost. If I sell in the borough, add 3% sales tax. Other state and local sales taxes apply at a certain level of yearly sales. Shipping to the buyer costs 3%, or more, depending on weight and destination, but around 1% for the populous part of our state, on the road system. Add 2.9% credit card processing fee, or 3.5% if the buyer chooses to use PayPal. Then, pay 24% income tax on any profit. And, the buyer gets to pay off their card, at the agreed rate. 
 

We don’t usually break things down that way, but it frames things in another perspective. I think it’s a death by a thousand cuts, financially and bureaucratically, for flying. It takes the fun and excitement right out of it. 
 

So, rather than dwelling on that, I’ve been thinking about how to keep it fun and affordable, so people can enjoy flying. Like the manufacturer boom in the ‘40s, the kit planes and ultralights in the ‘80s and ‘90s hit hard, then died fast. We enjoyed the leftovers, but they’re getting more and more precious. Unless something new and interesting comes along, it looks like it could continue to go that way. 
 

So, what is new and interesting? Maybe not a whole lot. Maybe people are just looking, waiting for the right time, wanting to fly, but thinking it will always be out of reach. That’s where I was, up until I got the right deal on good old number 29. Hard to believe it’s 40 years old. I’m really looking forward to the new motors. I think that kind of thing might drive a little bit of interest. The other side of it, is that we need new airframes, new projects, new ideas, or we end up paying too much and working too hard to build something from scratch, that at one time could have been bought with the cash on hand, and flown away immediately. 
 

I hit up Sonex and Murphy, to try to sell them on the idea of running a Simonini. I even offered both of them a motor to try out, and didn’t get a response. No, there’s just not much interest in flying, it seems. People are more interested in selling glorified supercubs to posers, for a quarter million bucks. 
 

When I get some paperwork on the new plane, I’ll have some interesting things to share with you. For now, I’m just waiting for the sun to come up in a few days. The arctic is a beautiful place. 

[1avidflyer 2025]

Thanks for the reply, a lot of truth in what you say.  Hope you are able to get paperwork straightened out and you get to working on the Kitfox 4.  They are a nice plane.  I've flown mine some wheres around a couple hundred hours since I rebuilt it.  JImChuk

[nlappos 423]

Facebook Avid Group is doing well. It is a shame because Facebook is a very poor interface for technical exchange, I can only imagine what it takes to conduct an annual inspection based on a piece of advice you got from an anonymous source on Facebook! On the other hand avid fox flyers is a terrific source, library, searchable database.

This is mostly because of you folks and how open you are to questions and suggestions and how well you document what your answers with photos and videos. the library of searchable threads of photographs and discussions from expert people who have done the job before is just terrific.

I have sent perhaps six or seven people from Facebook to the site and gotten emails from each one about how difficult it is sign up. Apparently our software doesn't even recognize some mail servers so the people who use to those mail systems cannot get their membership request email read. They the beat on the door for about two weeks and give up. None of this is criticism of the site editors and administrators, who are doing a great job, and also are not IT gurus. But it is a criticism of our overall system if we can't seem to get new members.

When I bought my airplane from Jim Peet I had dozens of people helping me make decisions, helping me check out and feel comfortable with my machine. What our neighborhood this is! I think we need to look carefully at how we get more members to come here because this is far superior to Facebook and the other social media.

[1avidflyer 2025]

Well said Nick.  I've also heard of others who had a hard time signing up to this site.  JImChuk

[krg.fab 1]

Been lurking for a couple months, recently picked up a MK4 HH. Kinda grew up on forums learning how to work on my truck, before social media started killing them off.  They are definitely a better platform for documenting how-to’s and other write ups.

[MnAvidFlyer 35]

I hope AFF continues to be a resource for the blue collar Avid/Kitfox owner. I have sure benefited from this site throughout the years. I plan to contribute some content to the Forum.

I plan to bring my Kitfox Model 4 1050 out of long term storage and get it flying.

[MnAvidFlyer 35]

Tried to post a pic multiple times but there was an error message. Any solutions?

Brooks

[1avidflyer 2025]

I'll give it a try to see if it works for me.  Here is a late evening flight picture.  Looks like it worked fine.  JImChuk

[saskavid 48]

I think a lot of builder have gotten the planes sorted out to their liking in some cases don't want to believe 90% of what is being floated on the forums. I did build some f-7a's f37-a's for my plane. maybe at some point I will post up my thoughts about building them and how they work. Building them is one thing....building them to be consistently identical was the challenge. The original f-7's my plane had weren't. 

Edited 23 January by saskavid

[TJay 1046]

I just lurk as well I wish I had time to work on another airplane and plaster it all over this site but life is nothing but hard work these days. I think The whole inflation deal the last few years made alot of people disappear from affordable aviation. But anyway I still check this site every once and a while also check the facebook crap but in all honestly even if this site is quiet I would still rather have that than most of the facebook people over here trying to give advice.

[AvidJack 31]

Red tape, and taxes.

I'm waiting for mosaic to finalize.  I'm a sport pilot, and there are no sport planes to rent for my bfr, so, no can fly. Sport for a reason, I'm a cancer survivor, so would require an MRI of my head (on my nickle) for a special review, and if there was a question.. no more sport pilot (even though I've been in remission for over 20 years).  My avid catalina is out of annual, so that won't work, and the weight keeps my instructor requirements, and choices, light.  In the interim, I've managed to lose some weight, so that's not as big a problem, but I need to fly it before I put someone else in the seat next to me.. catch 22.  IF mosaic turns out the way I hope..I'll be able to rent an ultra-heavy aircraft, like a 150 for my bfr and rusty pilot training..

So, I'm putting together a kitfox 4 speedster, The catalina is fun, but slow, and not suited to turf strips, which is one of my destinations. And, it's that time of year.. property taxes, insurance (house and car), income taxes, thoughts of others.. and I'm at a stopping point on the speedster, I need the exhaust system in place before I start figuring out plumbing, wiring, and cabling of the motor.  I was kinda shocked when I discovered the cost of the exhaust had doubled(!) from the new source.  I need to rebuild my war chest before I place that order, but it's getting closer? It's raining, the hangar is cold, the roads are muddy, the sun was in my eyes, the ball took a bad bounce..

Heck, I wanna fly.  I've been looking at ultralights again.  No red tape, no hassle, and I used to be a BFI.  I think I know where I can lay hands on an old kitfox lite project, or maybe an airbike?..That simoni 250 looks good, and costs less all up than the exhaust for the 912 uls.

I still drop by and check.  And, I'll be back asking questions soon enough.  I have three sets of manuals, all incomplete (even the ones purchased from kitfox) and all different.  The speedster will be completed, about the same time as mosaic?

It may be better to be on the ground, looking up, but it's certainly not as much fun.

Jack

 

 

[Klmt101 6]

One thing I was thinking about is the market has got really soft on model 4 and older while price of materials has doubled in the same time. The advertised price on a couple flying 4s that have been on barnstormers makes buying a project not very attractive unless you really enjoy it. Personally progress has been almost non existent with cows and farm equipment getting in the way. As for the forums they are a necessity for me because I don’t have a Facebook.

 

[Kent 28]

I still check in here once a week or so, Its still the best source of information out there in my opinion. I bought a derelict hanger last year so I have been working on it more than my plane but its gonna be nice when its done. I miss the old days when there was something new here every day.

[ChrisBolkan 151]

I'm still here!

[Avidventurous 27]

I check probably once a day. I don't say anything because Mom told me if I don't have anything good to say, don't say anything. LOL J/K

[HoosierSMW 9]

I peruse the forum almost every day. Have not had much to add so have not posted much. I have an Avid C kit but have made very little tangible progress. Now have a mostly un-started KF-3 kit (and part of a wrecked KF-4 1200) and am doing better with that. Will probably sell the Avid C sometime to make room. Retirement is looming for later this summer and hoping to work full time on the kit. Maybe then I will have more to contribute. I am sure between now and then I will be asking some (more) dumb questions. Please be kind.

[AvidJack 31]

I check in on a regular basis, to see what other's are up to.  Can't figure out how Jim finds all of the derelict aircraft.  It's amazing.

at hoosier..  and at some of the other folks that I've read about, attempting to put IV wings on a 2 or 3..

Once upon a time, and I just tried to verify it, with little success, I remember (?) reading that the kitfox 2, and 3, had the angle of incidence changed to provide a better "over the nose" sight picture.  I'd not expect that slapping 4 wings on a 3 fuselage will end up giving you 4 performance- there's one guy that did it, on some forum (I remember reading?) and didn't get the performance change he was looking for.  If my (failing) memory (what am I doing here... oh, yeah) is correct, and you do graft on the 4 wings/mixer/ etc onto your 3 fuselage, just be aware.  Not sure how to check the angle, or what you might be able to do about it, but..

I'm fighting my build- a 1992 skystar speedster, and just ordered the exhaust system for a 912uls.  While I knew the price had *increased*(!)  I wasn't aware that there was a 10 week delivery window.  Had I known, I would have ordered earlier.  Will now putter around on things outsdie the engine compartment.  Need to be sure the exhaust isn't in the way.

Hoping MOSAIC comes through, I'm grounded until then 

Jack  -Austin TX

[1avidflyer 2025]

Hi Jack,  the last two planes I picked up were on the Avid FB forum.   Both of them were for sale for a while before I bought them.  I guess the way to find the planes is to spend to much time on the computer looking at barnstormers and the airplane forums.  I actually wasn't really in the market, but this last one turned out to work good for me by giving me something to do over the winter while I'm in Alabama.  By the end of the month I will have to have it sitting on the trailer for the trip back to Minnesota, unless someone wants to take it off my hands before then.  JImChuk