Waht is the Avid + (Or plus)

[Justine 0]

Does anyone know the Avid-Flyer "+" or "plus" version?
How can it differ from the Mark IV?

thanks for your help

[ChrisBolkan 130]

I'm not sure. I have a Fat Avid. Is that an Avid Plus? I don't know as the later Avid versions are confusing to me. I can tell you that the Fat Avid is wider in the cockpit, but not taller so it uses standard Avid wings and Struts. It is longer (stretched) to accommodate a bit heavier engine, but I find that mine still needs about 10lb of weight in the tail to fly best with the 912when lightly loaded. I has more rake to the windscreen and has a different shape vertical stab. it also uses push pull cables to run from the mixer, which is mounted under the pilot seat, up to the flapperons. The area behind the seats is open and cavernous compared to a MKIV. Mine is set up tricycle gear. Here is a picture: 

[sioux201 84]

If you have push pole cables for the mixer, sounds more like an Airdale, the tail is a lot nicer looking, and I take it that the windshield rake to the firewall which is what I did with my A model?

Edited 9 Jul 2022 by sioux201
Add pic

[Av8r3400 1178]

I'm not sure. I have a Fat Avid. Is that an Avid Plus? I don't know as the later Avid versions are confusing to me. I can tell you that the Fat Avid is wider in the cockpit, but not taller so it uses standard Avid wings and Struts. It is longer (stretched) to accommodate a bit heavier engine, but I find that mine still needs about 10lb of weight in the tail to fly best with the 912when lightly loaded. I has more rake to the windscreen and has a different shape vertical stab. it also uses push pull cables to run from the mixer, which is mounted under the pilot seat, up to the flapperons. The area behind the seats is open and cavernous compared to a MKIV. Mine is set up tricycle gear. Here is a picture: 

I always associated that tail with the Persang-Airdale line of aircraft...

[ChrisBolkan 130]

That's why I initially said "I'm not sure" :-)

[Justine 0]

I asked the question on the Avid flyer forum on facebook and someone gave me the answer. So I mention it here.

It is a stretched version of the Mark IV, when it was marketed by Airdal. This was to meet the need to install heavier Rotax 4-strokes. The plane was too centered at the rear if we were content to install a 2-stroke and I experienced this at Montardoise. He stalled suddenly at the time of the flare. A detail that could be corrected provided you place weight in the front.

https://hyperleap.com/topic/Avid_Aircraft/Avid_Flyer

I can't confirm anything yet, I saw a topic about  this subject on this forum, certainly much more instructive.

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/airdale-flyer-company-avid-flyer-avid-magnum-mark-iv/

After, may be they are another modifications, but I don't know exactly.

Edited 31 Jul 2022 by Justine

[Justine 0]

I am still looking for information regarding a fuselage that is offered for sale. An old friend put it up for sale and introduced it to me as an Avid flyer Mark IV made by Airdal. It seems to me that he had mentioned the Avid + model.
I was well informed on the forum, in particular to find the dimensional characteristics there. This forum is really awesome by the way.
However, the fuselage that I show in the photo does not look like the Avid + Airdal, it looks like it does not look like any other, given the direction in which the tube that I have arrowed has been welded. It's not even mechanical in terms of constraint.

Can anyone help me identify this fuselage? Thanks

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Do you have additional photos from different angles?

[Justine 0]

Unfortunately, I only have this one. The boyfriend is not very motivated at the moment. It is clear that the tube should not be welded in this direction. It's a big riddle, thank you all the same for your interest.

There is the triangular plate for the VHF antenna which can be an indicator eventually

Edited 2 Aug 2022 by Justine

[marksires 484]

That tube would carry the impact loads from taildragger main gear (the forward main gear mounting points, nose wheel main gear go on the mounting points behind) to the rest of the fuselage structure I think.  Basic structure looks similar to my model C, but I don't have any good pictures of mine to compare it with.

 

[Justine 0]

Indeed, it is exact for the impact loads of the main landing gear, it is rather good! However, I hope it is a mark IV at least. They are longer than the model c I think. I'm going to send the link to the thread to my friend, he may be able to tell us.

I put the link with the photos of his Avid magnum that he has since sold, just so that you can locate the place where the fuselage in question is. http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=9256

[ChrisBolkan 130]

That could be a Magnum fuselage now that you mention it, but I can't tell for sure. if it is, it is heavier and beefier than any of the other Avids by a long shot. it is intended for a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360. The wingspan is 33 feet and gross weight is 1750lb. The Magnum is a very nice plane. IMO it is in a different league that all other Avid/Kitfox models stretched or otherwise, except maybe the latest biggest and baddest Kitfoxes.

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Actually the more I look at that fuselage picture, I think it is a Magnum.

[Justine 0]

I don't believe it's an Avid Magnum. It seems to me that the Magnum mixer is drawn differently. Remember, we could place 2 young children in the luggage compartment. 

Also, the friend just replied to me. He tells me that it's an Avid+, that the fuselage is damaged and that it has been repaired in a hurry to make plans.

I don't know who initiated the Avid Magnum, but I know that the friend in question knew the French importer of avid Flyer (Hubert Ferté) well and that he did not hesitate to make repairs in the workshop . He had to recover this fuselage from the importer (Euro Fly Aéro). It is this gentleman importer in particular, who had financed the development of the Ellipse, would he have participated in the development of the Avid Magnum? The one you have on the photo must be the first Magnum of France and maybe alone , it is n°07.

The friend tells me that it is an Avid +, it can be recorded in Kitplane or in Ultra light. I will pick it up shortly in the Loire, from Lausanne where I live. I will take pictures and post them on the forum. I don't know yet how fast I will progress to restore it to flying condition. I don't have enough to make the wings yet. I also have to redo the main gear.

Stay tuned and thank you for your insight.

Your information regarding the technical data of the Magnum is very helpful.

On this video there is magnum structure to show https://youtu.be/RxaulYBYkI4 and https://youtu.be/tnzzfinaQhE

[dholly 718]

Justine - I'm sorry I did not see your post earlier. I've attached a couple pics of my uncovered Avid+ fuselage and you can clearly see the tube in question on both. There are other similarities as well. I believe what you showed may a Fat Avid upgrade fuselage, manufactured and marketed by Airdale (successor Co. to Dean Wilson's Avid Aircraft) between 2005-2006 to existing Avid Flyer owners. It was designed to reuse many of their existing Avid parts ie. wings, landing gear, even FWF in some instances. It has a considerably wider cabin (43"), under seat control mixer, open baggage area, additional 18" length, larger tail surfaces w/ balanced rudder and weighed approx. 70lbs more than the Mk-IV fuselage. The 'factory sanctioned' M.T.O.W. was up to 1250lbs. primarily dependent upon the wing and lift struts used. I did a post on this topic in the Avid+ forum if you search. Steve Winder never mentioned to me that any Fat Avid fuselages were sent to UK or France so I'm guessing it's pretty rare over your way and would likely make a great project. Hope that helps.

[edit] Oops, I just found your other thread re: bringing this fuselage home. Looking closer at the new pics, I see significant differences from the Fat Avid. I think Randy is correct, more likely a stretched Avid Flyer. I do know that many Avid C and D (Mk-IV) models were brought back to Airdale to have the stretch conversion done. The popularity of the stretch and talk of a future Light Sport category led Airdale to develop the Fat Avid fuse upgrade and a handful of complete Avid+ kits, then eventually the Avid Mk-V, Pursang and Airdale Flyer to compete with Skystar's larger Kitfox 5 designed speciffically for the LSA market. IIRC, Brett McKinney (in Wisconsin, USA), who tried to resurrect old Airdale as new Airdale Sportplane, did a handful of these stretch conversions too.

Edited 14 Aug 2023 by dholly