Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

The big “Hail Mary”!


15 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I’m starting the conversation in THIS room, as I expect it to have the most constructive of the criticism to come. That being said…

I’ve been talking to the lady trying to pedal Avid. She’s the daughter of the late owner trying to sell it on behalf of her mother-in-law. I’ve also been taking my best estimates (truly guesses) and trying to figure out how anyone could purchase the remains of the business, pay a fair wage, keep prices reasonable and make any return on their investment. Apparently, my estimated figures weren’t too far. I’m basing that on the investors looking at the actual numbers which didn’t move forward.

So… here’s the big Hail Mary. Form a 501c3 non-profit, form a board to perform the required functions associated with a non-profit, organize a crowd funding campaign to purchase the equipment and plans for the official community, source the craftsmen (persons) within the community to produce the parts according to skill and ability to maintain a baseline supply. This can be community members “moon-lighting” as long as the quality is maintained. The jigs, molds, patterns would be signed out to the members as contractors. They would be producing for a pre agreed price per piece and all parts would be routed back through the custodian(s) for Quality Control before shipping to the end user. The prices would stay fair the community would get quality parts again and the community members can exercise their skills to earn extra cash. An aircraft company owned by the community who flies them… it would put the GA industry on its ear!

There are WAY more details, obviously. That is just the basic outline. Tear it up! Please, do try to make it constructive. 

Edited by CuddleRhino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Its not unreasonable, but the non-profit part would be since someone would be getting paid to produce parts. The price of the parts would have to be in the form of a "donation".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Allen, thank you for your feedback! I’m meeting with an attorney to ensure I wouldn’t be setting us up for failure. As far as I can find on the IRS website (and a couple others that were a little easier to understand), non-profit organizations can have paid staff and do business which results in a profit. However, it cannot inure a private interest, such as an individual, family, investor(s)… basically, the profit is folded back into the cause to purchase materials, maintenance/replicate equipment, sponsor young pilot hopefuls… it would be up to the board, truly. Again, thank you for replying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Best of luck in bringing it all together!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Its not unreasonable, but the non-profit part would be since someone would be getting paid to produce parts. The price of the parts would have to be in the form of a "donation".

Common misunderstanding of Non-Profit.  Non-Profit doesn't mean the organization can't charge (Hospitals being a prime example), and it also doesn't mean it can't make a profit - no organization can survive if it doesn't make a profit.  What it means is those profits are entirely invested back into the organization, and none are distributed to the benefit of individuals (shareholders/investors/etc.).

This probably wouldn't meet the bar for a 501(c3) however.  The 'benefit to the community' part would be a tough sell.  Focus on the educational aspects, and it might fly. (Pun intended)

Mark

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks, Mark. I definitely want to focus the application on the benefits it will bring the GA community in general (as pricing continues to soar) and specifically the large number of airplanes in the field that no longer have a standard parts source (could be a safety issue) which would be served. The education aspect could be implemented using the digital tools which have been refined during the pandemic. Almost a similar type setup to the EAA, but a little more specific. The biggest factor will be the community’s involvement. I have no doubt young pilots and hopefuls will be very attracted by a platform on which they can obtain parts at a much more affordable price than the commercial choices and receive maintenance/building training/support from the community as a standard. However, this plane ain’t gonna fly itself. Provided the 501c3 is approved, a board would need to form, decide on a standard of practice and most likely a custodian to orchestrate the logistics and keep the books. This course will require more contributors in the community. If it doesn’t get any traction in here, it doesn’t have a prayer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

"Avid" fixtures, molds and so forth have been split up, duplicated (sometimes poorly as in 912 engine mounts) depending on which company that produced parts at the time was "Avid". I do not know the history exactly, but the reason I ask is that it would be not only interesting, but very important to know EXACTLY what fixtures, molds and so forth for EXACTLY which Avid models this particular individual has. For instance I knew a fiberglass guy in Montana that had a bunch of "Avid" cowl molds. i had him make parts for my Magmum. He also had MKIV cowl molds. So does this person have them or are there multiple cowl molds? 

I guess what I am asking is, EXACTLY what would the non-profit be getting and is it the ability to make most of the parts the group would need?

The idea is intriguing....

Edited by ChrisBolkan
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I am not a lawyer or even want to be. It could be a hard sell depending on the state in which its formed. But this is in the United States so you might succeed in Calif.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hi Chris, thanks for your reply! As far as I understand, the company includes all jigs, molds, plans/drawings, and rights to reproduce. There will be an inventory and assessment if we can catch any traction here. The idea is to “sign out” jigs, molds, templates to community members with the skill/will to fill the demand. This may require some jigs/molds to be replicated. The small profit margin which would be decided by the board and presented in the bylaws, would be used, principally, to maintain quality and condition of the process. The parts would channel through the location where the Custodian would keep inventory (to adjust request for part production), complete a Quality Assurance process for these parts, and ship them to the end user. All books would be presented at monthly board meetings (most likely digital meeting). To your point about the molds, this community has been taking care of itself for some time now (it seems). This is an opportunity for this community to take their aircraft company out of reach for commercial interests and preserve this avenue for blue collar pilots to participate in the GA world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In about 2010 Brett Mckinney bought Avid from Jerry Mattison.  (At least that is the Avid who you could order parts from at the time)   Brett got the jigs and such at that time.  I had Brett rebuild a MK IV fuselage for me a couple of years ago, and he still had the fuselage jig then.  I dont believe it's the same jig that the lady you are in contact with has.  I was Brett's first customer with him repairing a different MK IV fuselage, and a guy who was the Avid's welder, was helping Brett get set up and spent a week or two there in Wisconsin while I was there.   The Avid parts were made by a guy in Belgrade, Mt.  He sold the Avid molds to  a guy I know in Mn.  I understand that some of those molds have made their way down to Iowa where the "new  Avid" operation was setting up shop.   It seems this whole thing is a bit of a can of worms, and so my question is,  who really owns Avid, are there really any "rights" to the Avid company?  Right now it seems that there are three sets of jigs floating around.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Iowa is the outfit in question. It might be a bigger can of worms than I thought, indeed. Thanks for contributing to the conversation! Are there many sources, from secondary means, for Avid parts currently? If the community is making enough parts to support itself already, this would just be gratuitous. I may just be standing too far back from the crowd to see what’s already being done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I tried to buy the rights and the Jigs to the Avid magnum a few years ago but didn't work out. I would still like to have that stuff.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I’ve been told that the Magnum is part of this lot. If you don’t mind me asking, who did you try to buy it from and why didn’t it workout?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I started with Mark Mendick and I thought he was a great guy to chat with. told me everything I would get as far as Gigs and plans. But when it came time for the buying he had an older Gentleman call me don't remember right off what his name was but he was also nice guy. Anyway long story short his price was more than I could make in a lifetime so I just forgot about it and moved on.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I believe Jim Tomash is the guy who was behind Mark, or it seems at least had something to do with it.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0