Picture of your pedals

26 posts in this topic

Posted

So this new avid I think the builder built around these beachcraft pedals and modded the left pedals...can someone send me a picture of your pedal setup?

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Posted

Here’s mine. These are both modified and not stock. The stock set up had horrible geometry. 

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Posted

Did you just make those out of steel?

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Posted

Not the best picture, but here is a stock MK IV setup.  JImChuk

 

Photo0612.jpg

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Posted

Yea this builder made the left side pedals shorter in order to use beachcraft pedals. I’ll put out a request for some stock ones 

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Posted

I think if you had a set of cable brake rudder pedals, all you would have to do is weld the tabs on that the cylinders bolt to and you would be good to go.  Bob Macaa has a set of B model ones, and I have a set of A model ones. They probably are identical.  One other thing to remember if you are going to weld on the rudder pedals, reinforce the area where the verticle tube meets the cross tube on the pedals, and also beef up the rudder cable arm where it attaches to the verticle tube.  Those are weak points.  I think if you look close at the pictures you will see some straps wrapping around the crosstube and going up the verticle tubes.  That is not original, at least not on the early rudder pedals.   JImChuk

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Posted

Yes. Typical poor geometry and poor braking.

I'll take photos of my pedals next time I'm at the airport.

The lever to the brake activator comes off the pivot point of the pedal. Much lower and shorter.

 

John M

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Posted

Here are some pics  of pedals in my plane and on a test stand. You will see a few avids flying and using this design. Effective and easy to install but not easy to build .post-136-13067163462724_thumb.jpgpost-136-13284644995929_thumb.jpgIMG-20180609-00255.thumb.jpg.30521f7f4a0

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Posted

Yea this builder made the left side pedals shorter in order to use beachcraft pedals. I’ll put out a request for some stock ones 

You don't want stock ones, they have very ineffective braking due to poor geometry.

Here are the stock ones:

 

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Posted

And here are how I remade them to work much better:

 

brakepedals_small_with_ratio.jpg

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Posted

You guys just using mild steel to fab these parts?

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Posted

You guys just using mild steel to fab these parts?

No, mine are 4130  like most of the plane's steel. I made them out of a flat sheet  except for the connecting tube. I  bent them to the shape then added some plates for better foot traction.  It isn't clear in my pictures, but I designed them so the strength of the pedals, particularly the connection to the brake cylinders, is not dependent on my welding ability, which is nothing to brag about.

Mark

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Posted

Here is mine I am very happy. Notice how close my master cylinder is to the pedal that doubled my brake pressure.

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Posted

You guys just using mild steel to fab these parts?

The tubing is 4130 the lathe machined steel is 1018 cold rolled. The bushings are aluminum. 

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Posted

Started from scratch.  The complete Avid/early Kitfox design is crap IMO.

post-36-1358478860371.jpg

 

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Posted

Here are photos of the brake pedals I have on my Avid MK4.

Hard to see, but the arm from the pedal to the hydraulic activator goes from the pivot point on the pedal.

John M

Opps! Can't seem to load the photos. So what do I need to do to load the photos?

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Posted

I'm pretty sure mine are stock but they work great . I can hold at full power and my wheels skid

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Posted

Jeepers, I can't do my mag check at 4krpm, the brakes are so weak.  Stock setup, and dry disks.  Probably a good thing in my case, though, as it keeps me out of trouble!

JimChuk - Great panel layout!  Is that an MGL FLT-2 in center?

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Posted

That is an MGL E-1 engine monitor.  Does just about everything for engine instruments.  JImChuk

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Posted

Double brakes on MK4

 

John M

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Posted

Hello Guys;

Stupid question from my side, I`ve the drum/wire original brake system on mine, and I´m quite happy for it so far, I step as HARD as I can on those and the wheels never block regardless, but what it really means is that the wheels are not having complete power to stop the plane, I know one of the most experienced pilot here crashed his plane because it block and nose over the plane.

What is your feedback about hydraulic brakes??? for those who had it for long!

Regards/Saludos

Dimi3

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Posted

the taildragger i used to own (Jodel DR1050) came with drum brakes from the factory. the flight school where i got my PPL had those same aircraft but they put quite aggressive cleveland brakes in there. It is a never ending debate on the Jodel mailing lists weather brakes on a taildragger should be able to lock up or not.. i personally had mine tuned so i could theoretically lock the brakes and flip my airplane if i wanted.. personally i would have preferred the aggressive disk brakes we had on the school airplanes, but the conversion was so expensive, that i decided to live with the stock setup and it worked just fine.

I think in the end it boils down to what you need in order to go to the places you want.. if you land often in super tight spots where you really need to keep your braking distance to a minimum it is probably better to risk flipping your airplane if you are doing something wrong rather than crashing into trees because your brakes didn't pull hard enough .. with the above aircraft i could land in most grass fields around here without even touching the brakes, so i really didn't need the disk brakes.

another factor is also the weight and balance of your aircraft and the grip of your tires on the runway.. trent palmer made a video about how he lands and he stated that he often touches down with his wheels locked.. he's got enough weight behind the main wheels and not enough grip with his tires on the dirt to flip the plane.. so being able to lock your wheels does not necessarily mean you are going to flip your airplane if you land with locked brakes..

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Posted

John M here.

I fly an Avid MK4 with 21 inch tires. When I went to these from my 600 x 6 tires my marginal braking was reduced further.

So I sent off to MATCO and got the mount for using double pucks. 

The braking as much better, but still not so much that panic braking would cause a nose over.

As a long time tail dragger pilot, I have learned not to use brakes at all unless absolutely necessary.

I fly back country strips a lot and do not land on a strip that would necessitate hard braking.  It's too easy to over brake in a panic an nose over.

A friend with a Kitfox 7 installed 29 inch tundra tires on his Fox. His tail is so heavy I can budge it off the ground. He installed good breaks due to the larger tires and yet while slowing down from a landing with the tail up he braked too hard and put it on the nose. 

This destroyed the Whirlwind prop, spinner, front of the cowl and the oil cooler.

I had an instance where after landing I did hard braking to make it off at the 1st exit. I let off the brakes and was instantly pull off the runway to the right; went up on the nose and left wing tip.

Investigation found that one of the pucks on the right side locked up.

Had to repair the left wing tip, flaperon hangar and buy a new Whirlwind prop.new prop.

SUMMARY: The breaks have to be good enough to slow you down, but not enough to easily flip you over in a panic stop.

PS: I had thoght this forum had been deactivated.

Installed my 3rd Jabiru engine in August of last year. It is the Gen 4 2200. Jabiru has made many needed improvements to the top end which I like. 100 hours so far with only minor issues, both dealing with the starter Bendix. Much odf the new engines are now cast instead of CNC from a billet. This included the Bendix cover which cracked. It was replaced on warranty with one cut from billet. Then recently the Bendix itself would not engage the starter consistently. This was also replaced on warranty.

 

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Posted (edited)

brakes can save your ass.  When the tail wheel breaks loose or the springs break the only thing you have left to keep the plane going straight is the brakes.  If over braking is an issue for you and you tend to "panic" brake, then perhaps your not as proficient as you would like to believe.  We do it every day here day in and day out.  Lots of guys don't even have the tailwheel connected and it just free casters.

In almost every instance I have seen of "over braking" it was done in front of a camera or a crowd trying to show off how good they weren't.  To advise someone to have less than optimum braking for fear of incorrect use makes as much sense as gun control in my book.

:BC:

Edited by akflyer
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Posted

Well im not much of a solo pilot yet, but my blackfox has Clevland single puck calipers and my bluefox has Clevland dual puck calipers, i like the way they work, i can hold them back at full rpm and keep the tail on the ground at same time, well when there is tires on, there on skis right now. Hahahahahahaaaa

i think ur brakes should work awesome, and the pilot needs to know where his feet r at, ive cn places where good brakes and quick thinking have saved an airplane from destrution ( i could tell u stories of flyin into the goldmine or the homestead when i was a kid)  but ive also ruined a prop in my earlie days here in Ester by not knowing just how good the brakes r. Stil have that one hangin on the wall.  Hahahahaaa 

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