Sea Foam in wing tanks OK?

[Yamma-Fox 403]

So I am told my tanks will leak if I run ethanol fuel in the wing tanks, but would it be OK to add Sea Foam?

I'd like to run a high dose through during test running of the Yamaha... to clean the entire system out good, top cyl, valves, ect.

Opinions ?

Edited 18 Jun 2018 by Yamma-Fox

[1avidflyer 1983]

I'm scared of adatives, can't really give you a reason why, but that's how I feel about it.  If I was worried about cleaning things out, I would do it manually.  YMMV  JImChuk

PS  one reason I don't like addatives is this.  Had some fuel with an octane booster in it.  Had a skinny plastic bottle that I would sometimes use for testing fuel to see if it had any alcohol in it.  Did a test with this octane booster enhanced fuel, and when I came back and looked at it, I found that it had melted a hole in the plastic at the bottom and the fuel was gone.  Never did that with the regular untreated gas I tested.  YMMV

Edited 18 Jun 2018 by 1avidflyer

[nlappos 413]

Sea Foam is unnecessary and nothing but flim flam. 

[ChrisBolkan 130]

I do not know what seafoam DOES do, but I do know through previous testing of fuel and additives for my Magnum wing tank repair that seafoam does not soften or harm the fiberglass resin of the fuel tanks and in case you are curious does not harm buna-N that a lot of fuel system o-rings are made of.

[ChrisBolkan 130]

Marvel Mystery oil is another gas/oil additive that has a strong following in the aviation community. It has no effect whatsoever on fuel tank resin or Buna-N. So whether you are in the "this stuff worked wonders"  or the "this is snake oil" camp, at least it won't hurt the fuel system if you use it.

[1avidflyer 1983]

Interesting that you mention MMO.  I almost did in my post.  Here is something I found out about it.  Not sure it's accurate, but see the full report here.  https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20020916X01610&akey=1   The part in the report that relates to this topic is this.  According to the FAA inspector, the additive that was added to the fuel was Marvel Mystery Oil. An empty 1 gallon can of Marvel Mystery Oil was found in the operator's trash. Instructions found on the can stated that the correct ratio for mixing with fuel was 1 part additive to 100 parts fuel. The contents of Marvel Mystery Oil were 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard.     

Mineral oil, stoddards solvent, and lard.  What could go wrong with that.....  Not saying that report is true, but apparently that's what the NTSB guy who wrote the accident report though.   JImChuk

[TJay 1041]

Sea Foam is unnecessary and nothing but flim flam. 

Your wrong!  Sea foam is some of the best carb and choke cleaner there is. That has been proven time and time again.

[Yamma-Fox 403]

I like Sea Foam for winterizing other toys and stuff and as a lazy ass carb cleaner.   Works good for that, but I'm pretty anal about the plane and do a full teardown and cleaning on that.

Was thinking SF or MMO more as a  valve cleaner because the previous snowmo owner had a little carbon buildup in there.  Not bad though, probably from running a bit rich, so I think I'll try the old "run the hell out of it" technique first and see if I can blow it out.

Thanks Chris for your post and research on the topic.

Sure want to avoid leaky tanks!!

[RobS 52]

And don't forget the wintergreen oil.

[wypaul 448]

Ok I know better but here goes, interesting that the inspector managed to get the facts wrong. The correct ratio is more like 1:320 for MMO to fuel which is 4 oz to ten gallons of fuel. That amount of MMO will not noticeably color the fuel so how much was added?  Also interesting that he was able to give an exact formula for MMO without saying how that was derived but did not actually test the fuel for the amount of anything in the fuel let a lone MMO.  Did MMO actually cause the issue, maybe, but sounds like human error to me.  Did someone add 1 gallon of MMO to eleven gallons of fuel and would that cause detonation?  The facts are lacking in this report to be able to draw any conclusion if the proper use of MMO is of value, IMHO.  Maybe that was red raspberry syrup in the fuel tank, there is no way of telling from that report, because the fuel was not tested.  To bad the investigation was not handled better.

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

Well like I said, I'm not sure if it's accurate or not regarding the makeup of MMO.  Could be though.  I suppose though, the point could be: do we really know what we are adding when using an additive?  Are we are just taking some company's word on it, and they have a vested interest in saying it's great.  I do know that the fuel with the octane booster in it ate through my plastic bottle, when regular untreated fuel didn't.  JImChuk

[ChrisBolkan 130]

When I was getting ready to repair my leaky Magnum fuel tanks (Not leaky from ethanol gas, leaky because of poor layup) i was trying to figure out what to use to fix the leak(s). I took a bunch of glass canning jars and put AV gas, ethanol free gas, 10% ethanol pump gas, 95% ethanol alcohol (everclear), Seafoam, Marvel mystery oil and MEK (just for fun) into multiple jars.

Then I cut the fiberglass panels I removed from the wingtanks into pieces and put the following substances I was considering to fix the leaks onto the test panels: Phenonovalac epoxy. Hysol structural epoxy, Buna-n military fuel tank sealant and polysulfid tank sealer.

Then I put one test panel of every tank sealant into one jar of each "fuel" and let them sit for a few weeks. It ended up making a matrix of jars 4 X 8 or 32 jars. 

No surprise, the MEK pretty much destroyed everything but that was just for fun, and MEK is not a fuel.

What was most interesting is that the 10% ethanol car gas was by far the hardest on the coatings and the fiberglass substrate. It removed the BUNA-n coating, softened the fiberglass and swelled the polysulfide sealer, but did not attack either of the epoxies.  Way worse on the coatings than the 95% prure ethanol for drinking, so there must be something about gasoline with ethanol in it that amplifies the solvent properties of the alcohol. 

Av gas did not harm any of the sealants. Ethanol free car gas did not hurt the fiberglass or coatings either. 

Seafoam removed the dye from the buna-n coating but did not do a thing to the coating itself or the fiberglass. The Buna-N remained well adhered and retained the same hard rubbery feel.

The marvel mystery oil did absolutely nothing to any of the coatings or fiberglass substrate. The pieces came out exactly the same as they went in.

 

[CSCameron 6]

Thanks for posting, interesting findings.

Clark

Edited 19 Jun 2018 by CSCameron

[little rocket 16]

If you are wanting to clean the carbon and junk out of the engine,you can put MM in your cylinders overnight .I had 2 cylinder in my lycoming that had low compression , On compression check I could hear the air coming out the exhaust on one cylinder and the intake on the other low one. I had read that you could put a spoon full in the spark plug hole and pull the prop threw by hand a bunch of times to get it moving threw the engine and leave it overnight .So I did that ,next day pulled it threw by hand some more then put the plugs back in and started it and let it run up to operating temp.Checked the compressions on the 2 low cylinders and both had come up by 10 pounds but were still a little lower then the 2 good ones .So I repeated the process and next time the 2 low cylinders were up around the same as the rest.After that I added 2 ounces per 5 gallons when ever I went flying.Marvel Mystery oil made me a believer.

[ChrisBolkan 130]

I was going to stay out of the "it works or doesn't work" fray, but an old IA I know and trust swore by Marvel Mystery oil and suggested that I put a bit in with the gas at every fill up when I got my Lycoming powered Magnum. I knew nothing about GA air cooled engines, and trusted him and put a little Marvel Mystery oil in with the gas every time I fueled at home. I was using ethanol free auto gas. When flying out of the area I would almost always use Av gas and did not carry any MMO with me. For the 450 hours I flew the plane before wrecking in a bad landing, the engine always used exactly one quart of oil between changes so I never had to add oil, and the compression was always 79/80 on all cylinders every time compression was checked. I realize I probably got lucky and have a good engine, but nothing changed at all in 450 hours and the cylinders looked fantastic thru the plug holes. So did the MMO have anything to do with that? Who knows? But it did not appear to hurt anything either, so I suppose when I get that plane back together, I will stick with what I was doing and continue using MMO in it. 

I didn't know about MMO when I was flying behind the 582, and I am not using it with the 912. But I think thermal stresses are greater on the big clearance air cooled engines and if the MMO is helping great! If it isn't helping I think I can for sure say that it it not hurting anything. And it smells nice.

[zadwit 105]

SEA FOAM BEWARE!!!

Ive used sea foam for years... I bought a ridge runner that sat for 4 years and had stale fuel in it even though the last owner put stablizer in the fuel.

Anyway I sloshed several cans of sea foam in each tank and drained it all out. Then I filled with fresh gas and put sea foam in  to help clean out the carbs. I had it running just fine. Then I flew it....about 1 hours. I noticed my fuel pressure guage was at about 4psi and starterd to get lower around 3 psi, then after another hour down to about 2 psi ... I thought it was the fuel pump so replaced it.. same problem....I had in line filters(paper) and the sea foam and varnish in teh tanks plugged the filter.. It would not gravity drain and was very hard to blow thru. Replaced the filter and 2 hours later same problem.. so DONT USED SEA FOAM with paper filters.....

 

I have screens in all my locations now and no more problems... I guess the fuel goes thru the screen and gets burned up in teh engine.... Sea foam is good, it will clean things out but it will also plug up a paper filter of which most are....

[zadwit 105]

I used to overhaul lycoming and continental engines in Alaska....I saw lots of lead sludge in the engine especially in the crankshaft bore...There is too much lead in teh fuel and it gets into the lower parts of the engine.....not good...anyplace with centrifugal  action will make the lead precipitate out and cause problems esp with roller bearings.....Id limit my use, keep the engine leaned when flying, use lead scavenger agents like TCP or other treatments and change the oil whenever it get dark or green colored.....a little lead is OK. one gallon of avgas 100 to 9 gallons of cheap unleaded car gas will raise the antiknock index up to around 100 in testing we did up there... but any more lead than that , not good...

having said that, avgas 100 is stable and will sit in a tank for a long time, 2 or 3 yrs and still work, not so with car gas...

[akflyer 1427]

SEA FOAM BEWARE!!!

Ive used sea foam for years... I bought a ridge runner that sat for 4 years and had stale fuel in it even though the last owner put stablizer in the fuel.

Anyway I sloshed several cans of sea foam in each tank and drained it all out. Then I filled with fresh gas and put sea foam in  to help clean out the carbs. I had it running just fine. Then I flew it....about 1 hours. I noticed my fuel pressure guage was at about 4psi and starterd to get lower around 3 psi, then after another hour down to about 2 psi ... I thought it was the fuel pump so replaced it.. same problem....I had in line filters(paper) and the sea foam and varnish in teh tanks plugged the filter.. It would not gravity drain and was very hard to blow thru. Replaced the filter and 2 hours later same problem.. so DONT USED SEA FOAM with paper filters.....

 

I have screens in all my locations now and no more problems... I guess the fuel goes thru the screen and gets burned up in teh engine.... Sea foam is good, it will clean things out but it will also plug up a paper filter of which most are....

Paper filters have no place in an airplane.  They like to absorb water as well and you cant see anything wrong by looking at it till the fuel stops flowing.  This lesson has been learned the hard way by more than one person on here.

 

[zadwit 105]

I just didnt know.. .Vance Simmons told me so I replaced all my paper filters with screens and no more problems.

 

Yes, sea foam in the wing tanks. I was trying to clean out the varnish from the stale gas and sea foam did that but it plugged the paper fuel filters......

[zadwit 105]

IT was so fine you could not see it but it plugged those paper filters right up...

[Yamma-Fox 403]

You guys got a screen filter to recommend?

(id rather have a clear plastic case and not glass or metal)

[little rocket 16]

Here is a link to K&N clear filter with stainless mesh   

           https://www.speedwaymotors.com/K-N-81-0241-Stainless-Mesh-Fuel-Filter-1-5-in-OD-1-75-in-Long,200334.html

Edited 5 Jul 2018 by little rocket