VW engine in an Avid/Fox

[Trackwelder 12]

I am looking for people who have actually flown VW powered Avid/ Kitfox aircraft. Is it enough power ? W/B ? fuel consumption? Climb? Direct or Redrive? I am not sure wich way I want to go but 2 strokes have always made me nervous other than the VW, Corvair or Subaru I don't see an alternative that doesn't cost as much as a certified engine and most have about the same weight the days of cheap alternative power seem to be behind us . Like I said I want info on how it worked the VW site is just a bunch of people telling you that it can't work otherwise I would bvother them.

[Av8r3400 1177]

Back when I was still looking for a plane, I chatted with a guy who had a direct drive VW in a Just Escapade (similar design to a Kitfox). He said it worked okay, but was not optimum. Take off run was long, over 700' and climb was ~500 fpm. Not good for a Just. (Just uses the Avid airfoil with internal flaps and ailerons) That airplane with a 912UL 80 hp would be off in 200' and climb 1500 fpm or better.

A direct drive VW will only make 60-70 hp on a good day. This is at a high rpm, 3700 rpm plus. This means you would need a relatively short propeller (50" ?) which may not offer the performance on a slow airplane. Especially around the round cowl on a Kitfox.

Used Rotax 912 motors are around for a decent price, less than $10k, you just need to be patient and jump when you see one. In these airplanes, I just don't see anything else on the market that is viable.

One of my EAA chapter mates has a Jabiru 2200 in a Zenair. It works well in that application. This or the 3300 could be another viable engine option.

Edited 3 Jan 2010 by Av8r3400

[Trackwelder 12]

That was kind of my thinking with the direct drive setups, I am still lookiing for first hand knowledge about the redrive setup. The $10,000.00 price tag is the problem, I know that people are flying with subarus and that has to be about a 250 pound engine where as a continental 0-200 or lycoming 235 weighs 200 to 240 pounds and a used engine can be bought for $3,000.00 or $4,000.00. the prices are better but do they work in an Avid. My first choice, on paper anyway would be the jabiru but how much power does the engine make at a speed where a 70 inch prop works.

[Avid67 0]

Check this out,

http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/r2100_engine/index.htm

[jackak 20]

Another option is the suzuki/geo engine. check out the flygeo_uncensored Yahoo group site. Some good info there. Not many have been installed in Avids or Kitfox. With the geo you would need/want to use a redrive.

Jack

[flattie45 17]

Another option is the suzuki/geo engine. check out the flygeo_uncensored Yahoo group site. Some good info there. Not many have been installed in Avids or Kitfox. With the geo you would need/want to use a redrive.

Jack

Here are a couple of addresses if one is interested in Geo/Suzuki conversions:

www.nessaaircraft.net/

www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml

Edited 7 Jan 2010 by Nate

[napierm 2]

VW's have limitations but this guy seem to have some success:

Not a 912 to be sure but not bad.

[C5Engineer 1170]

I'd be more nervous behind a Soob, VW, or Geo than I ever would be behind a two stroke Rotax. Go fly in a light one with a competent pilot that has a 582 and then do the same in one that weighs 100lbs more from engine alone that is using an auto conversion and then decide. These airplanes lose 4 feet per minute of climb for every pound you add to them. To do their mission properly they need to be light. I don't know what the conditions were in that video but I get off the ground faster with my 65hp at gross than he did solo.

[horsepower 24]

I'd be more nervous behind a Soob, VW, or Geo than I ever would be behind a two stroke Rotax. Go fly in a light one with a competent pilot that has a 582 and then do the same in one that weighs 100lbs more from engine alone that is using an auto conversion and then decide. These airplanes lose 4 feet per minute of climb for every pound you add to them. To do their mission properly they need to be light. I don't know what the conditions were in that video but I get off the ground faster with my 65hp at gross than he did solo.

I agree Joey,I did a lot of research before choosing the 582 and it gets right down to power/weight ratio.The VW I believe is a good engine but they are more suited to a faster less dragier type of plane like a Sonex.The size of the prop has its limitations because of the direct drive and the RPMs it turns.I was told a good running 503 will out perform a VW and 912s are totally ridicoulas now.If I were rich I would have a 912 but one has to settle for something practicle or we may as well all be flying certified aircraft.Im hoping my 582 will be safe and I spent extra for some decent gauges to keep it in its operating ranges.If it does quit me I guess I,ll say damn I wished I would have bought a 912. Randy

[Trackwelder 12]

I presentlyhave the 582 , but am looking at a Fat Avid Conversion, really looking for practical information on VW redrive but it doesn't appear to be ou there For the money a continental 0-200 or lycoming 235 seems to be winning but if I can find the info I hate to give up on the VW

[horsepower 24]

I presentlyhave the 582 , but am looking at a Fat Avid Conversion, really looking for practical information on VW redrive but it doesn't appear to be ou there For the money a continental 0-200 or lycoming 235 seems to be winning but if I can find the info I hate to give up on the VW

I think I would consider contacting Preceptor Aircraft,they use the VW in most of their aircraft.The advertised performance isnt to shabby.Im building a Super Skyraider and really considered the VW but went with the 582 instead.The Preceptor Super Pup has an empty weight of 450 and a gross of 1050.You have probably already researched it but just incase you havent it may be worth your while.Randy

[Av8r3400 1177]

There's currently a 912 UL (80 hp) for sale on Team Kitfox which is at TBO (1500 hr), but is only $2700.

Depending how mechanically inclined you are I know these can be inspected and without machine work go far beyond TBO.

Subaru is just to heavy to be a viable choice. Any install over 200# makes these planes nose heavy, poor performers.