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New guys with an Avid needs advice

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Posted

Hello,

I recently purchased a Avid Flyer project and need some help to determine what I need to complete it. First of all I have never built or owned my own plane before, let alone an Avid Flyer. It is probably a heavy hauler, mark IV. It has a new Rotax 582 engine with gear reduction and electric starter. It is missing the flaperons, which were removed by the seller, not the owner. I live in southern Indiana and was wondering if there might be someone who would be able to help me determine what I need to complete it. I have no building experience other than the classes at Oshkosh and I have built and flown RC planes for decades. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

I recently purchased a Avid Flyer project and need some help to determine what I need to complete it. First of all I have never built or owned my own plane before, let alone an Avid Flyer. It is probably a heavy hauler, mark IV. It has a new Rotax 582 engine with gear reduction and electric starter. It is missing the flaperons, which were removed by the seller, not the owner. I live in southern Indiana and was wondering if there might be someone who would be able to help me determine what I need to complete it. I have no building experience other than the classes at Oshkosh and I have built and flown RC planes for decades. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum Winglift.  Lots of photos of your bird would be better to get you some info and help.  What town in Indiana are you located?  You can put your marker on the map by clicking on the map post that Akflyer posted above.    We probably have some members within driving or flying distance from you.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Welcome to the forum!  First off we need a bit more information from you.

Do you have a serial number, a bill of sale, a build manual or any kind of paperwork on it?  If you can post some pictures of it then we may be able to identify the model number of it.

Does it have the undercambered ribs?  What is the rib spacing?  What is the thickness of the spars?  All of this is needed to help determine what you have.  If it has ever had an N number that will help narrow it down pretty quickly as well.

:BC:

 

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Posted

Thank you EDMO. Sorry for the delay in responding, something happened to stop the upload of photos. I will attach some photos. I am located in Worthington, Indiana.

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Posted

Now those are some nice pics, looks like you got the good stol wings on it, one thing I notice is on your rear spar it looks like the front of the spars have been cut out like you do for the folding option, is this normal in Avid Construction, on the kitfox you only cut out the back half.

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Posted (edited)

Now those are some nice pics, looks like you got the good stol wings on it, one thing I notice is on your rear spar it looks like the front of the spars have been cut out like you do for the folding option, is this normal in Avid Construction, on the kitfox you only cut out the back half.

Winglift,  I hope you got a builder's log and photos with this plane - Looks like someone either took a lot of it apart, or only the wings were built and fuselage covered?    Did you get a builder's manual with it?  There are some posted on here.  Looks like you need lots of help from the Avid flyers.   I don't know what happened to my first post to you.  Has this plane ever been registered, N-numbered or airworthy?    I don't know the model, but looks like Mark IV controls ?  

Looking again at the allen head bolt photo with bent tube above - Looks like it may have been wrecked?  What part is that?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Pretty serious project you've taken on. It's going to be a ground up rebuild to do it right. Pretty tough to say what all it needs from the pics. Also hard to assume it's a MK4. There were far more early models with a couple MK4 parts than actual MK4s. I am not trying to be discouraging but mine was in far better shape when I found it and I am still convinced we put more hrs into it  restoring corroded parts than it would  have been building a kit. If you have the time and patience you can have a sweet flying bird. 

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Posted

Pretty serious project you've taken on. It's going to be a ground up rebuild to do it right. Pretty tough to say what all it needs from the pics. Also hard to assume it's a MK4. There were far more early models with a couple MK4 parts than actual MK4s. I am not trying to be discouraging but mine was in far better shape when I found it and I am still convinced we put more hrs into it  restoring corroded parts than it would  have been building a kit. If you have the time and patience you can have a sweet flying bird. 

+1 to that, Joey.

I do have to say rebuilding the Mangy was cheaper than a new kit, though.

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Posted

Just a couple of things I saw, it's a different looking cowl from a MK IV, or any other Avid cowl I've seen.  Looks like it sits low so it's easier to see over the nose.  The other thing is a 3 blade warp drive prop is pretty heavy to run on a B gear box.  JImChuk

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Posted

I think the Allen screw is the horizontal leading edge bolt.

and i think it's a good idea if it meets sheer specs, always a pain to install this bolt!!!!!

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Posted

I did get the builder's manual with it. The one selling it has not been forthcoming in letting me know what else he decided to take. Note, he is building a kitfox located somewhere in Wisconsin. The s/n is 774 and I have already received the paper trail from the FAA. It is the heavy hauler model Mk IV as that is the description throughout the paperwork. The first tail number was 3490P and the second or last tail number was 6008C. I am including a photo of it when it appeared to be all together and on the trailer. Yes it is the bolt for the horizontal stab. What I am not clear about is why it has been stripped down.

Avid Flyer at Purchase November 2013.JPG

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Posted

Reminds me of the plane my dad has right now that he picked up for next to nothing. Before and how it sits currently. Stinks seeing what some people do to them. 

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Posted (edited)

If that is the correct factory serial # then it's most likely a C model.  I think that about a week ago, Doug Holly posted a link to an older message that told some of the things to look for if you think you have an actual MK IV.  Several little gusset plates and the like to name some of the changes.  One I didn't see in your pictures is a small gusset at the bottom front of the door frame.  Maybe it just wasn't visible in the picture.  I just looked, and found a picture of my MK IV that shows what I'm talking about.  Another picture of my MK IV fuselage after I painted it.  It shows some additional gussets up around the rear wing spar carry through that are not on earlier models.  Another change is if you look about where your left shoulder would be if you were sitting in the plane, you will see a short tube  for mounting a small shock absorber that holds the door open.  That was not in the earlier models.  If you look at my door openings, you see I have widened the fuselage with some additional tubing.  That did not come from the factory in any of the models.  ;-)  JImChuk

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Edited by 1avidflyer

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Posted (edited)

If you go to "Avid General Hanger" instead of where you are now, on page 1, Doug A+ listed a whole series of things to look for to tell if its a MkIV - One place he says the serial numbers go back to about 1025, but have a "D" after the number.   I don't know what you gave for this "salvage/repair job", but the seller sure stripped a lot of $$$ off of it, especially the flaperons and instruments, and left a lot of work to repair it... Did you get an engine mount and exhaust?  The Grove gear, wings, engine, prop and fuselage are worth some money tho.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

It came with an engine mount and exhaust. Did have instruments. See photos attached. I just asked him what he took from the plane and he said, "As we discussed prior to your purchase of the Avid aircraft project, all components, we were aware of and available for sale,  were provided to you in the sale / transfer transaction.   I believe the “builder manual” will provide you an appropriate guide for the ascertainment of all necessary components needed to complete the reassembly of this project. Alan J. Leszinske". Is there anyone in this area who might be able to come and help me evaluate this for me?

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Posted

I think you got a good buy, in the end it doesn't really matter what it is, after you finish a year or so of working on it you will love it, Alot of folks want to buy Flaperons for these older birds but really if you look at them they shouldn't take more than a couple days to make, there is really nothing to them. If you choose to finish it over the next year you will learn alot.

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Posted (edited)

I want to get this airworthy again, but need some help by someone familiar with building this. I am not sure what happened to my previous post, but the seller has not been forthcoming in telling me what else he took besides the trailer and flaperons, his answer was basically to figure it out. I was hoping to get someone to help me to assess any damage and missing pieces besides the obvious flaperons, and hopefully be able to formulate a plan.

Edited by winglift
reword sentence

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Posted

Find out if the owner listed the plane as "salvage" for the FAA.  If so, then it is no longer a plane - just a pile of parts.   I cant understand why someone would disassemble everything and still sell you all the parts - that is so unnecessary, since the EAA has a kick-ass liability statement that you can use to sell a registered, airworthy plane you have built.  Guess this was done to avoid any builder's liability plus whatever the seller clipped out of the deal.  The one bright side of all of this is, once you have it built you will know everything about your plane.   EDMO

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Posted

First thing first, welcome and I hope you find your Avid rebuild fun and educating.

IMHO, best way to learn about these little planes is to put in the wrench time. Obviously, we can't do that for you, but there are plenty of nice folks here with a vast amount of knowledge willing to help you along the way. Hopefully, you can find some local support.

It does seem to me like you may have put the cart just a bit ahead of the horse here, you really need to familiarize yourself with the kit components and build manual ASAP. Search here onsite and explore the forums, those and much more are available to you here.

I suggest you begin today with that huge P.I.T.A. kit builders rite of passage more fondly called a piece-by-piece inventory check. To get started, compare your pile of parts to the Mk-4 factory pull sheets HERE.

Keep us posted!

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Posted (edited)

Just a couple of things I saw, it's a different looking cowl from a MK IV, or any other Avid cowl I've seen.  Looks like it sits low so it's easier to see over the nose.  The other thing is a 3 blade warp drive prop is pretty heavy to run on a B gear box.  JImChuk

Jim,  Look closely at the prop hub with those white clamp blocks inside the two plates - Is that really a WD hub?  I have never seen one like that, and the two I have are machined from solid aluminum castings - no separate, nylon-looking clamp blocks.   Was this possibly the "Lite" version before the HPL hubs?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Hi Ed,  Take a look at this prop hub.  Looks like the one in winglift's picture.  JImChuk

http://warpdriveinc.com/product/3-bld-std-hub/

OK - had not seen one of these light-weights before - the white plastic really stands out compared to the black.  My HP3-SAE1 is on ebay, and one of the small photos shows the insides of the two halves - all machined aluminum - The HPL is similar to mine, but lighter.  EDMO

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Posted

Find out if the owner listed the plane as "salvage" for the FAA.  If so, then it is no longer a plane - just a pile of parts.   I cant understand why someone would disassemble everything and still sell you all the parts - that is so unnecessary, since the EAA has a kick-ass liability statement that you can use to sell a registered, airworthy plane you have built.  Guess this was done to avoid any builder's liability plus whatever the seller clipped out of the deal.  The one bright side of all of this is, once you have it built you will know everything about your plane.   EDMO

I have already asked and received copies of all of the paperwork for this plane and it was not listed as salvage for the FAA.

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Posted

The registration was however cancelled in 2015.  Hopefully they will let you renew the registration.  I'm not sure how that works though.  I'm really sorry if all my posts have come off as being negative.  That was not my intent.  I looked and saw things, and so I mentioned them.   JImChuk

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?omni=Home-N-Number&nNumberTxt=6008c

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Posted

First thing first, welcome and I hope you find your Avid rebuild fun and educating.

IMHO, best way to learn about these little planes is to put in the wrench time. Obviously, we can't do that for you, but there are plenty of nice folks here with a vast amount of knowledge willing to help you along the way. Hopefully, you can find some local support.

It does seem to me like you may have put the cart just a bit ahead of the horse here, you really need to familiarize yourself with the kit components and build manual ASAP. Search here onsite and explore the forums, those and much more are available to you here.

I suggest you begin today with that huge P.I.T.A. kit builders rite of passage more fondly called a piece-by-piece inventory check. To get started, compare your pile of parts to the Mk-4 factory pull sheets HERE.

Keep us posted!

That is all good and great, but hardly the case here. I never asked for anyone here to do the work for me and getting the information that I need before doing the work is hardly putting the cart before the horse. I have already inventoried all that I have. If I were to start putting this together before knowing what I am doing then that would be putting the cart before the horse. This is an already built plane and may have either missing or damaged parts.

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