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What is an Avid Mk IV project worth?

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Posted

So as I seriously ponder getting another Avid (even though I just bought a Sonerai II). I wonder what an Avid project is worth. There is one on Barnstormers right now for $6,500 and he might be willing to trade for my Audi TT Quattro. I believe it was a previously flying aircraft that needs new fabric and be put back together. It wouldn't be a hard project other than I'd like to stretch it and make it ready to mount the Subaru engine back on...eventually.

Do you all think this is a decent price? I realize I will need to do some work to it and that Loran has to go! However it looks like a good project that wouldn't be hard to get into the air again. Even with the stretch and cabin modification to make it more like the Pursang. 

Any and all opinions welcome. 

Kenneth

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Posted (edited)

Just a quick observation - The Red & Black wing on the wall looks like a short wing, and the unfinished wing looks like a long wing, so which is for the Avid IV? ???   And, what hours / condition is that engine in?

EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Restorations suck! If it were me I'd go for the brand new stretched one for $8K in WA. Who knows how much corrosion that one has, what's gotten tweaked along the way...etc. 

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Posted (edited)

The way I see it is both wings are speedwings.   Not the aerobat wings either, or the ribs would be on 12" centers, not 18".  FAA registration is current, but it does list it as a model C.  Having the airworthness cert. means you don't have to mess with a DAR getting it airworthy.  That will save at least $500.  The engine/gearbox/prop should be worth at least $2000 by themselves I would think.  It has all the instruments, radio, and transponder already.  How much do you think your Audi is really worth to you?  That's a question you really need to answer to yourself.  It seems like this one is in your area, that's worth something compared to going clear to the other side of the country for one. I would plan on different wings for it though if it was me.  Jim Chuk 

Edited by 1avidflyer
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Posted (edited)

... It seems like this one is in your area, that's worth something compared to going clear to the other side of the country for one.

I agree with everything Jim said, but especially this point. Not saying you should go for this one, but distance to a project can be a real pain. First you have to travel to check it out. Then you have to arrange transportation, and avoid damaging the project in between.

Oh, and Joey is right too. You never know what you are getting into when you buy an old plane to restore. On the other hand, plenty of people buy flying planes with no idea of how much corrosion of other hidden issues are lurking where they can't see. At least if you tear it down and rebuild it, you know what you've got. It's just more work than buying a kit that hasn't been built yet. You pays your money, and takes your chances...

Edit: some other things to think about (since I've been doing the same thinking on my project). I've never covered a plane, but friends tell me it will be about $2500 or so (on the low side maybe). I think paint will be in addition to that. If the engine needs going over, Rotax Rick charges about $2500 for a rebuild. If you have to rebuild the wings, that could be ???. These are really rough numbers. Just food for thought when considering what you might have into this thing to get it flying. I'm sure other can provide more accurate numbers, but you get the idea.

Also, I personally wouldn't try to make it something it's not already. I'd leave the 582 in it, get it flying, have some fun. Then sell it down the road, and buy one with the stretch already done if that's what you want. I have a regular fuse, and a stretched one, and I can tell you from looking at it that doing the stretch is definitely doable, but may be a bigger project than it seems at first. I'd hate to see you cut up the fuse and then get stuck on the project. There's enough on these things that can slow you down on these. Only you know what you can bite off though. Good luck!

Edited by Luked
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Posted

Is there structure missing in the cockpit area, wonder what the 2X4 is doing there if not.  Appears to have 2 sets of wings, the second unfinished one appear to have the wingtip in place is just visible in one of the pictures.  Not a MK IV for sure note the wood on the top and bottom of the fuselage and the straight HS. 

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Posted

Joey, I haven't seen the one up in WA for 8K yet...besides like Jim Chuck says, it's on the other side of the country from me. Not really viable to pick it up. I agree that a restoration isn't the most ideal but basically I need a good fuselage I can make some upgrades and stretch too. 

Jim, in the shape my Audi is in it's worth about the same as he is asking for his project. Just wondering if it would be a worthwhile trade for me or not. He told me they were STOL wings...now you have me thinking too. I honestly didn't look at those pictures that closely until you said that. I figured it was the shorter wing in the back since the rest of the parts were red in the first picture. 

My plan is to call him later today and see if he really has any idea what he has. Of course like most of these guys with a "Mark IV", it very well could not be. Why is it that they think they have a IV just because they put in a baggage compartment? 

I claim ignorance as well, I don't know all the ins and outs between models, that's why I posted this here.

Thanks! I always value more eyes and opinions on the subject.

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Posted

Just a quick observation - The Red & Black wing on the wall looks like a short wing, and the unfinished wing looks like a long wing, so which is for the Avid IV? ???   And, what hours / condition is that engine in?

EDMO

EDMO

I'm not totally sure, I'm trying to find that out today. He didn't give me much information about it, just sent the pictures. I think that I see tubes on teh bench to extend the wing, plus the wingtip in the lower part of the picture? Maybe he was working on one and hadn't done the other? However he says the airframe and engine only have 78 hours. My question is why did they strip the fabric if that is the case unless it sat outside? 

My thought was if it is indeed the speed wing I would rework the ribs, although he is telling me it's the STOL. Doesn't mean he knows what he has either. 

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Posted

Is there structure missing in the cockpit area, wonder what the 2X4 is doing there if not.  Appears to have 2 sets of wings, the second unfinished one appear to have the wingtip in place is just visible in one of the pictures.  Not a MK IV for sure note the wood on the top and bottom of the fuselage and the straight HS. 

That's a good question about the wood being there. This is why I put the pictures up. Extra sets of eyes to point things out that I might miss or just not think through all the way. I just noticed the cheek radiator too. Definitely not a MK IV. I'm still not sure if the top stringer is wood or just the lighting, but the bottom one definitely is.  

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Posted

Just looked at the pictures again, and Ed, you were right.  The unfinished wing is a long wing although not a Heavy Hauler wing.  Count the long rib tails and there are 5.  Speedwing has 4.  Don't know how I missed it the first time.  If you are going to go with your Subaru engine, you should do the extention on the fuselage, long heavy hauler wings for sure.  If you can do your own welding, it shouldn't be that bad for you to do.  If you find some corrosion while your at it, just repair it as necessary.  You could build new wings if you have to, You can get the spars from Just aircraft for about $130 each plus stiffeners for about $40 each.  I was going to get one 13'6" spar from them, and they offered to put the stiffener in the spar to help with shipping.  You could even go with Kitfox 4 wing ribs for a better/faster wing that still does good  at STOL performance.  I guess it's up to you.  Find out the bottom line, and if possible look at it before you say yes.  Jim Chuk

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Posted (edited)

Just a quick observation - The Red & Black wing on the wall looks like a short wing, and the unfinished wing looks like a long wing, so which is for the Avid IV? ???   And, what hours / condition is that engine in?

EDMO

 

EDMO

I'm not totally sure, I'm trying to find that out today. He didn't give me much information about it, just sent the pictures. I think that I see tubes on teh bench to extend the wing, plus the wingtip in the lower part of the picture? Maybe he was working on one and hadn't done the other? However he says the airframe and engine only have 78 hours. My question is why did they strip the fabric if that is the case unless it sat outside? 

My thought was if it is indeed the speed wing I would rework the ribs, although he is telling me it's the STOL. Doesn't mean he knows what he has either. 

I think I agree with Joey - If you could make a deal on that stretched one, you would be better off in time and $$$.

You don't need that engine anyway.

EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

I agree, a stretched fuselage would save a lot but as a welder cutting and stretching doesn't bother me at all. Also, I still haven't found this elusive $8,000 stretched plane yet either. 

I agree that I don't "Need" that engine, but I also don't need my car anymore and it's time for it to go. If I sold it outright I would probably still not be able to find a kit for the same price, plus it's close. Just was thinking this is close and if it is close to flying other than fabric and paint it wouldn't be too bad to do. 

The other part to this equation is that I have the Subaru engine in dry storage in Utah....a long ways from me. I just shipped a VW (Revmaster 2180) to my door this morning. From Pensacola it was $265. Don't know what the Soob would cost to get back out here. 

Seems to me everyone thinks this isn't a good deal for me. Guess I'll keep looking. Besides I already have two airplanes at my place here. The Sonerai fuselage is in the sunroom! 

Edited by lostman

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Posted

Also note the fuselage tubing (Lower area near rudder pedals) behind the firewall is similar to a C Model. FAA registry is calling it a Model C originally registered in 1993.  The gear appears to be the longer legged gear and there are no brake lines, maybe it has been replaced?  Single wing tank?  My guess is that the original plane was damaged, possibly due to a ground loop? Just guessing. Is the Engine a 532?  The Loran is Junk, The com radio is out of date, not sure about the Xpdr but it would have to be tested, I'm thinking it does not meet current tech requirements. 

Another thing to consider is: if you acquire it and rebuild it the airplane will still have to have an annual condition inspection accomplished by an A & P or IA.  Only the original builder will have the repairman's Cert for the airplane.  Unless you are in the loop with a local mechanic it is getting more difficult to get a GA mechanic to mess with Experimental Homebuilts in some areas. 

Based on my experience building several planes and rebuilding several planes I think the collection of parts is not worth more than $4000.00 cash and you would have to have $10,000 to put into it to get it flying without avionics, another $3500 to $5000 to put minimal avionics in it.  Realistically, if you could get it all done for less than $20,000 you would be doing well.  There are some guys that might be able to do better than that but that's what I see from the pictures.

MarkD

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Posted

Everybody Makes some good points here, But $6500 bucks, In your area hell I would scoop it up and make it what you want. If it sits in the corner for 3 years then turn around and sell it again, Otherwise have fun with it. 

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