Kitfox seat belt set up pic request

[C5Engineer 1170]

For several reasons I'm going to Hooker 4 point Harnesses before I fly again. Have a guy on the field now who only deals with experimentals and is a great welder. Can someone post a detailed pic of where the inner two straps attach to on a Kitfox??

 

Thanks

Joey

 

 

[Av8r3400 1178]

When I get back I'll take some pics of the mangy.

[EDMO 1078]

Joey,

     There is a small triangle with a bolt hole in it at the center back of the crosstube about halfway to where the rear turtledeck sets on the fuselage - both inner shoulder straps attach to that point.  I almost got the outside shoulder strap fitting at the far right of the photo.

     I have seen some planes where a stainless strap with a hole in each end was bent around a crosstube and the shoulder strap connected to that - no welding required.   Probably better if you put a section of your old hose around the tube first...

EdMO

Attaching photo:  Taken looking up at fitting toward rear of turtledeck.

Edited 22 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[LSaupe 123]

Do you need a lower attach points as well?  If so, I can try to get a shot of mine today.

Edited 23 Jul 2015 by LSaupe

[allonsye 85]

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/3/0/1566030.jpg

 

I gotta wonder if the "1/2 chromally would hold up to what you'd need a 4 pt harness for.  I'm thinking of adding a flight helmet as well.

[C5Engineer 1170]

It's mostly for winding up upside down. I just had a real close friend destroy his 180 in the Montana backcountry after an engine failure and the only thing he told me afterwards was but the best harnesses you can get.

[EDMO 1078]

There are some guidelines for angles behind your shoulders for the straps - I think they are in AC43-13, but may have been in one of the builders or design books.   I believe it is horizontal with shoulder to about 20 degrees up - never down - but you need to check the books on that .

If you remember the twisted-up, flipped, Pursang - Lostman and his wife got out with nothing more than a scratch with 4-point harnesses.

And, the driver of my Kitfox 1 got 165 stitches in his head and some broken bones when the 3-point didn't hold him.

If you don't think chromemoly is strong, take an 18" piece of 1/2"x .035 wall tubing and try to bend it over your knee - and it is not being braced by other tubes like in your fuselage.  It would probably be a little better for your body if the tubes bent a little to lessen the strain on you, like your seat supports collapsing instead of your spine in a hard landing.

EdMO

Edited 23 Jul 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[LSaupe 123]

Here are the lower attach points on the Model III.

 

 

[dav8or 20]

There are some guidelines for angles behind your shoulders for the straps - I think they are in AC43-13, but may have been in one of the builders or design books.   I believe it is horizontal with shoulder to about 20 degrees up - never down - but you need to check the books on that .

If you remember the twisted-up, flipped, Pursang - Lostman and his wife got out with nothing more than a scratch with 4-point harnesses.

And, the driver of my Kitfox 1 got 165 stitches in his head and some broken bones when the 3-point didn't hold him.

If you don't think chromemoly is strong, take an 18" piece of 1/2"x .035 wall tubing and try to bend it over your knee - and it is not being braced by other tubes like in your fuselage.  It would probably be a little better for your body if the tubes bent a little to lessen the strain on you, like your seat supports collapsing instead of your spine in a hard landing.

EdMO

 

I believe an angle below the shoulder causes the spine to compress in an accident. I have a Grumman AA-1 Yankee that I am about to add shoulder harnesses to because they didn't come from the factory with them in the early days. Unfortunately, the only approved shoulder harnesses for the Grumman AA-1 series mount just below the rear windows (below the shoulder). I don't have any choice there but it will be better than what I have now which is lap belts only. I have 3-point belts in my Avid. Those might get upgraded in the future. I sure do like the freedom of experimental aircraft.

 

Dan

[EDMO 1078]

Dan,

     I think you are correct that the FAA has the theory of the spine compressing because of shoulder belt attachment point -

But the seat belt is supposed to put down pressure on your body, and the shoulder belts just keep the upper torso from going forward and side-to-side  -  I don't understand their reasoning, but seldom do.  Accident injuries vary greatly. 

No matter where they are attached, the shoulder belts increase your chances of surviving and decrease injuries.

EdMO

Edited 14 Aug 2015 by Ed In Missouri

[KFfan 151]

I read this on AOPA today,

 

"Harrison Ford's airplane lost power and he landed short of the runway on March 5 because of a failure within the vintage airplane's carburetor, the NTSB found. The probable cause determination approved Aug. 6 found the movie star and general aviation advocate's injuries were exacerbated by the failure of a retrofitted shoulder harness."