Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Simonini Victor 2

26 posts in this topic

Posted

For $10k you can get a real nice, low time, 912.

 

There is a number of two stroke manufacturers out there chasing the Rotax goliath (Hirth, Simon, Compact Radial, etc).  In my (very active) EAA chapter I've seen several of these "off brand" (meaning no disrespect, just the anyone-but-Rotax fare) installed, ran, fixed, tinkered, crashed and finally re-engined with Rotax.

 

There's a reason Rotax is #1 in small, light, aviation engines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

GM and Ford were the goliaths of the automobile market until Honda, Toyota, and Datsun came along with better quality cars.... :stirthepot:

 

One of the guys who used to post over on the BackCountryPilot.org forum ran the Simonini Victor 2 on a CH-701 STOL homebuilt. He told me that it was a significant improvement over the Rotax he replaced with it.

 

But... I have no personal experience with either of these engines.

Edited by EZFlap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't think that Toyota, Honda or Datsun made better cars - Their governments subsidized them to make them cheaper than U.S. cars, and they could bribe the car magazines to make good reports on their cars, just like the Japanese did with the steel industries.

Meanwhile, our $$$$ and jobs went to their countries.

EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Toyota definitely makes a better car.. fit and finish as well as running gear lasts a lot longer than most ford or gm products... same with truck.. and it's not cheaper than the big 2, just better over all.

First hand info trumps thoughts n speculation. A 90+ hp engine that's only marginally more expensive than a 582 does not sound too bad. Not everyone wants a 912 and the headaches that a 912 can pose as well.

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'm a lot more angry about the imports than most, since I lost the job I had for 27 years because of foreign cars- cant help that.

I was preaching back in the 1960's about people buying cheap foreign goods, and giving their children's jobs away - I was right.

My Ex bought a Toyota Land Cruiser and had so much trouble and expense with it, she finally sold it and bought a Dodge Durango and has been driving it for nearly 20 years.  My daughter drives it now.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the sad part of that argument Ed.... Did you know that the Toyota truck is made more in the US than any other truck??  The big 2 are sometimes assembled in the US with parts made from all corners of the world.. The Tundra is made with more US parts and more US labor than any other truck... Maybe that is why they cost so damn much :lol:

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Leni,

     I am sure that Toyota had to finally move its factories here for financial and political reasons - but not back when I was working.  I would rather see my $$$ go to Canada than to "The Good People who met us at Pearl Harbor"!  But, I am old school, and things do change - sometimes not for the better - Oh Bummer promised "Change", and you see where that took us!  :lol:

EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Not everyone wants a 912 and the headaches that a 912 can pose as well.

 

 

 

Like reliability and an economical fuel burn?

 

You'd rather have constant tinkering, twice the fuel burn, stinking like 2-stroke oil, cold seizing and engine out crash-landings...

 

poke.gif

 

 

 

I work on cars for a living, so don't try to impress me with the all Asian cars are superior BS, because that's a total line of crap.  

(Don't misinterpret that as me saying domestic cars are superior.  Far as I'm concerned most all of them are made for shit.)

Edited by Av8r3400
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

US car companies are the ones who gave us "planned obsolescence", selling an expensive car that was known to fall apart within five or ten years. Craftsman and Snap-On wrenches never did that. 

 

I'm old enough to remember the poor reliability of 1980's Chrysler cars, the Ford Pinto explosions, and other historical tidbits. The quality and reliability of the five Honda cars I've owned is unmatched. The US automobile industry had a 50 year lead on the Japanese auto industry... they should have been so far ahead in quality that cheaper import cars were just not desirable.

 

But the car companies didn't squander their monopoly all by themselves... our labor unions helped drive nails in the coffin too.

 

I'm sure this is getting too far off-topic, so I'll shut my pie-hole :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well that thread degenerated quickly. I am currently looking for a 4 stroke engine that will deliver 100 hp. I am not opposed to trying something different, but I want to fly not tinker. Weight is a big deal. The viking engine looks good but it is heavy. What does a rotax 912uls really weigh installed? I mean radiator, coolant, oil, exhaust, everything.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A 912 will weigh 165-175 pounds installed with all accessories, radiator, coolant, exhaust, etc.

 

You can find used 80 hp 912 engines fairly often.  I've seen them as low as $4000.  Install a big bore Zipper kit and you have new pistons and cylinders, with 100+ HP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

110 hp at 114lbs and half the fuel burn of a 582 is pretty interesting to me!  I'd rather pack the extra pounds in the cockpit than in the engine.  Hence the question, has anyone heard anything about this motor? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

there is a guy in France who installed a simonini victor 2 in his avid flyer, he has a blog, http://avidsimonini.blogspot.se/2012/08/i-will-be-at-blois-2012.html

 

I don´t think he burn half of the fuel of a rotax 582; eventhough he seems happy with the engine, he ran into some issues with the exhaust installation, nothing big in my opinion, but still he is not sure about the fuel burn advertised on that website.  One engine you want to consider is the GEO Suzuki-

 

G13BB   16  valves SONS about 100 HP naturally aspirated
G13GTI 16   valves DONS 110+HP naturally aspirated
G16       16   valves SONS NA about 115HP

 

there is this website  http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml 

 

he have conversion kit, is little bit heavier than the 912; but lighter than the soob, he recommended a 45 degree installation to match the gear box  and fit the engine in the cowling, but in my opinion, vertical with a belt drive will do the job just fine.

 

I`m not doing any advertising here nor connected to any business, however, we should all push for cheaper and more reliable aircraft engines,  they are around us since ealry 80´s running in our cars/bikes.

 

I would have already this engine installed in my avid if it would be because I need to use a ridiculous amount of money to get engineering company approving the engine conversion; just because nobody else has that engine on a plane here yet.

 

 

Regards

Dimi3

Edited by Wolverine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I can't believe ethanol didn't make it into the discussion above 😜! Larry, where can the used $4000 912 be found? Bryce

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I've seen two in the last couple of years. You need to look around and talk to people. Barnstormer ads are good, but not the only place.

My friend Dave paid $4500 for his.

Join an EAA chapter or four. Go to the meetings and ask around. They are out there.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Seen an HKS on barnstormers yesterday for $4000. Would be a good engine on a real light plane I would think. Jim Chuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 Larry, where can the used $4000 912 be found? Bryce

 

 

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6135

 

$6500 for a very functional 912ULS.

 

Will probably be sold in a matter of hours...

Edited by Av8r3400

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ok, so help me out here. $6,000 for an engine with 2000 hrs on it with a 2000 hr tbo, isn't the buyer faced with a $$$ overhaul? Bryce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1. Experimental. TBO means nothing.

2. I personally know of 912 engines with over 3000 hours never touched. Still running perfectly.

3. I would be willing to bet $100 that with those compression numbers the cross hatching on the cylinders is still intact.

If I needed one, I would buy this motor in a heartbeat. Pull the gearbox for a re-shim and inspection of the clutch, change the rubber and run it!

Edited by Av8r3400
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Look up Fred Stork in France. He flies an Avid with the Simonini. You can get 1st hand info from him. I believe he is on this sight and also on the Avid Flyer Aviator Forum (AFAF) group on Facebook and he has a vlog also and Youtube him. It seems a great choice. 582 ... well ... who's idea was that anyway !? Piece of rubbish just waiting to kill you with it's rotary shaft. Just a stupid idea at 65 hp. and 4 gph. Why not have 100 hp at 2 gph and the same weight and 4 times the tbo ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What East TN Flyer doesn't know about engines has built an entire fleet of good, light, inexpensive and capable engines like the 582 and its cousins. Who picked the two strokes for the Avid line? The designer of the family, a near genius as an airplane designer and a guy who created the Avid/Kitfox light sport fleet, that's who. For those new guys who look at this site for advice and discussion, pls know that many of us completely disagree with East TN Flyer.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

NAW! I think those thousands and thousands of 582 flyers in all kinds of aircraft are WORNG!  LOL!

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Just to be sure data was what runs our decisions and not internet rumors, here is some real data, drawn from an Australian report of 6 years of light airplane experience (they were hunting Jibaru issues) that compares Continental, Lycoming, Rotax and Jibaru experience.

The report is here : https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5769864/ar-2013-107-final-report.pdf

Note how similar Rotax is to Lycoming and Continental, hardly a "piece of rubbish waiting to kill you" frankly. Note that a Lycoming engine can be a little more of a safety issue than a Rotax, and that the total engine failure probability of a Rotax is only about 20% higher than a Continental or Lycoming.

 

 

engine failure.jpg

engine failure 3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One of the big issues causing GA engine failures or issues is the cost to overhaul them. Same with the 912 series when they build up hours to TBO. People just can't afford 15K or more to overhaul so they keep flying a time bomb. A 582 can be overhauled for approx. 3K so doing an overhaul every 5-6 years, you have an engine that is more reliable, isn't more than 5-6 years old, and most of us old codgers will only go thru 1 or 2 overhauls at the most. Compared to a Cont/Lyco that hasn't been torn apart  in 25 years.  99% of all 2 strokes don't fail, "they are murdered by their owners".

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0