Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

The 180.. saving a ramp mummy

50 posts in this topic

Posted

The bad part is I have seen the results of QUALITY work coming out of his shop.. did he have a bad day?  a bad week?  Too old to hold the bucking bars anymore?  eye sight going south?  Its kinda hard for me to kick an old man who was once a master of his trade... I too will get old one day. 

 

The flip side is, the man took our money and for what it costs, it should be done right.  That said, I am not sure how this cookie is gonna end up crumbling.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Leni,

      I read an article a while back about some guys who make / repair engine mounts commercially - They were against the powder coating because it can hide cracks.  Recommended epoxy paint instead.   I have heard this about airframes too.

EdMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Attlee powder coats all the engine mounts. Powder coat will crack through like paint, but especially on a seaplane mount it will help with corrosion issues like mine had.

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

A lot of things get powder coated - including fuselages - I am just telling what the engine mount "experts" said, "Powder coating forms a solid shield, which may not show cracks in welds".   And, I have heard the same from others.

 Personally, I don't like PC, but guess it is cheaper than epoxy paint for sales purposes.

That other coating - Anodize - that was put on aluminum - was not so great either, because we found corrosion under it on lots of propeller parts when we inspected them.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

After much deliberation, I did the unthinkable... I called the FSDO and chatted with the inspector there then sent him pictures. While on one hand I SERIOUSLY hate to get the government involved in ANY aspect of my life or anyone elses, I just cant sit by and take this one in the shorts. This will probly end up with me taking the parts to the FSDO when I get home for further "evaluation" then I will more than likely have to take them to someone else and pay them to do the job right. I just cant see putting the mummy back in the air with sub standard parts on her just because I want to fly the damn thing this summer. I talked to one of the local 135 guys that his rudder in the same shop when I went to pick up my parts and he noted that some of the rivets on his rudder were "bucked a little harder than needed". Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I start putting up pictures of the new engine going together and the interior work getting done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You did the right thing, Leni.

 

You may have just saved someone else's life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Updates??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well surprise surprise.. The guy from the FSDO was spose to come to the house wednesday to look at it, but he didnt show so yesterday we took the part up to Anchorage to let him look.. There were two inspectors that looked at the work and they came up with even more issues in his work.  They are spose to go have a talk with him next week.  While I was up thre we took them out to another guy that does repairs and while not cheap, his work looks awesome.  We are trying to decide if we give the original guy a chance to fix them right, or if we just take the stuff back to the guy in anchorage, spend lotsa money and have them fixed by someone else.  Should have it figured out in a couple days.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Good luck.

Get your money back from the original guy and go to the new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I had to poke a stick at the BCP jack-wagon crew...

 

No one there will be happy until you strip, polish and gut the interior of your plane like Big Renna's.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I had to poke a stick at the BCP jack-wagon crew...

 

No one there will be happy until you strip, polish and gut the interior of your plane like Big Renna's.

 

On one hand, I could go with the scotch brite then squirt it for now thinking... on the other hand, right now its down and not flying, for a few extra days work I can have it done right.... No, it will not be a hangar queen, the plane will get flown in the bush, but it can start out its new life nice and sealed up good to help protect from corrosion.  Would I like Bigrenna's bird, you bet your ass, is it even remotely practical for me to do that, hell no. 

 

I think I am going to win out on this one and get it stripped and a paint job done right, but we shall see...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

For those who are wondering what Larry and I are talking about, here is a question I posted on BCP....

 

 

 

Need some input from the pros.

Quick update. Engine FINALLY got back in one piece and looks pretty sitting on the stand. Still sorting out the issues with the tail feathers, but I have a set of loaner spares I can use to get the bird back in the air.

We had another shop rebuild the ailerons (as mentioned above Grey Morrison at M&M first class A+ job on those, they are PERFECT) I would HIGHLY recommend him to anyone in the area that needs sheet metal work done. Nice guy and he knows his shit, better yet, he is a CRAFTSMAN who actually takes pride in his work! He is also a machinist so we know those guys dance to their own drums and get off on the minute details so he is my go to guy now for aircraft metal work :lol:

Dilemma....

My partner in the plane has a buddy that has done a bunch of paint work for him the past (matching suburban, drag boat and trailer) and this guy does really nice work. He had him stop by the hangar the other day then he calls me up and tells me this painter says he wouldn't strip the plane just hit it with scotch brite and then reshoot it as the paint is stuck well its just chalky and fading....... mind you the new primer and paint is sitting there ready to do the plane right (in my mind right is to strip it and new primer n paint). So of course, its now a matter of figuring out what we should do. This guy has painted around a dozen planes over the years and is going to take us around and show us how the planes look years after he has painted them.

I want the plane as light as possible.. to me that is stripping and shooting the new primer and paint so we know how much of what product went on... the painter guy says the new primer will add just as much weight as the old paint we have now and if the old paint is stuck on well, no need to remove... The primer we bought is epoxy so I can see that adding more weight than the original zinc used so in the interest of weight savings do you think there will be much difference. As far as I am concerned, if we just shoot it and get another 5 or 10 years out of the paint and delay the pains of stripping it all down it may be worth it so we can get the darn plane back in the air.

The control surfaces are all new and will be shot "from the ground up" then balanced so I am not worried about stacking on tons of paint that leads to possible flutter...

Any opinions I can get from you guys to go back to my partner with to shoot holes in the no stripping route is kinda what I am looking for here I guess, or can you convince me that you have done / seen it done to just shoot over the top of whats there now will work.

For the record, we are not trying to make the plane nice a shiny so we can sell it to someone that thinks they are getting a new plane. I figure this bird will be ours till it gets wrecked one day. My partner is the kind of guy that will never sell anything he has ever owned cause he gets too attached to it :lol:

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Here's a link to the entire thread at BCP…  Link

 

For the honest record, yes a full strip and paint would be the "right" way to do it, but my point is:  Is it worth it?  You are already nipple deep in unexpected costs.  This was (I thought) a budget family hauling bird.

 

 

Does a complete full strip & paint job help in that mission?  

Does it add to the safety of the plane?

Does it make the plane fly faster, further or cheaper? 

Does it only an additional layer of cost for 10 foot cosmetics (vanity)?

 

Food for thought.

Edited by Av8r3400
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

All very good points Larry! 

 

No

Maybe

No

No

 

The one maybe is...... Adding paint can add 40 pounds or so to the plane.. Should I be playing at a strip where 40 pounds could end in disaster??? No, but I do know me and I do know that sometimes that 40 pounds could mean the difference between the floats just barely dragging the tree tops versus the wings hitting the tree trunks...  Its a long shot, but its the only argument I could come up with for safety :lol:

 

At the end of the day, the plane I learned to fly in (pa12 ironically enough it belonged to the guy I am partners with now on the 180), probly had more patches and duct tape on it than it did covering... But that plane was flown daily by one or the other of us and we had MANY MANY awesome hunts and memories made in that plane.  My #1 mission is to the have the plane to haul the family in one trip and do this safely.  Airworthy is all I really care about at the end of the day.  As long as its safe, everything else is icing on the cake.  sumbitch Larry, why do you have to go and throw common sense into the mix :dunno:  Your probly right, and I will probly join his thoughts and just shoot it, if we have to do it again in 5 or 10 yrs, so be it, atleast for now, it will be sealed up and protected from corrosion.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hey Leni I read through some of the comments on BCP (thanks for the link Larry). Like Larry said, I'll be the odd man out, and have a different opinion. Actually I'd be agreeing with one of the guys over there.

 

I'd be in favor of painting up just the tail feathers, and getting it in the air for now. Or, since you said you have some spare tail feathers, put them on for now, and get it flying. Advantages:

 

- Less weight

- Get flying sooner

- Still have the option to strip it and re-paint at a later date (also less weight)

- Less expense now

- Chance to do a good "shake down" and work out any bugs (make changes or repairs before you have new paint)

 

Either way will work fine though. This is just what I'd do.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have to at least shoot the top side of the wings, the paint is pretty rough up there from tree sap etc etching the paint.  well, I guess I dont have to, I flew it 10 hrs like it is and the only squawk I had was the engine. We had already replaced engine mount rubber,  Elevator trim cables and chain and a dozen other little items the IA didn't like.  Shit, I may just talk him into putting the engine on and go fly the damn thing till the water freezes up... Which will only be a couple weeks :lol:  Then I guess we could roll it back in the hangar and do the paint work during the "tweener season" of the water getting stiff and having enough ice to put it on ski's.

 

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ahh, well I guess that complicates things a little. If there's not enough on the top of the wings to protect it from further corrosion then I would probably re-think things.probably depends on how long it would be till a complete paint job. I've used this stuff on old cars with amazing results. Old oxidized paint looked like new. I would only use if for a short term solution. I'm certainly no paint expert though.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Magic-TR-3-Resin-Glaze/dp/B000BOKO4W

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Where are you at with this project? If you haven't installed the tail feathers yet, I would definetly strip and paint the plane properly. Use Sea to Sky hydrogine peroxide based stripper. It works great and doesn't burn your skin like the old stripper did. An easy way to apply it is to spray it on. I have an expensive stainless steal air driven pump with a wand sprayer and 50' hose. I can cover an entire airplane in less than an hour. Since you are only doing 1 airplane you can use a shutz gun, which is an auto undercoating sprayer, costs about 25 bucks. It will take you alot longer to spray your entire aiframe, but it beats the hell out of brushing it on. I use a shutz gun for stripping small parts and touchup stripping after the overall strip is finished. DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE STRIPPING PROCESS. It isn't that bad of a job.  I enjoy it , it is a mindless simple process in which you see gratifying results very quickly.  With a good helper I can strip a plane in a couple of days. Prep, dent repair , and all the rest is where the time can build up. If you decide to take this route I will gladly answer any questions you have to the best of my knowledge. Good luck.

 

Cliff

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Cliff -

 

Are there any EPA type police you have to be concerned about these days when doing paint work - at least in you neck of the woods in PA.  It's been 20 yrs since I stripped and painted a plane. Back in those days, there was no EPA or at least it didn't have the nazi like power it weilds today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The  Sea to sky stripper  is eco friendly. The rinse water doesn't need to be captured and sent off to hazardous waste people. The paint  waste needs to be filtered out of the water. The leftover stripped paint is taken by the hazardous waste company. All my spraying is done in a filtered paint room using epa approved exhaust filters. If you are stripping  and painting your own plane {not for profit}  The rules don't apply to you , other than rinsing stripper and sludge into a wet lands and other stupid things people have done like, overspraying the neighbors cars,boats,swimming pools etc etc etc. Use common sense, and think about how what you are about to do could impact your neighbors and enviroment and you will be fine. Don't flush chemicals down the toilet, don't spray next to a neighbors house on a hot summer day who has their doors and windows open, Don't dump chemical waste in the gutter, etc etc etc.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

well as the weather has warmed up we got back to work on the 180.  Fuse is stripped and damn near ready for alodine then paint.  Hopefully we can get the wings stripped next hitch in.  I think the end result will be worth the effort.  It would have been dumb to hang a new engine and prop on a ratty looking plane or just shoot it without stripping it first.  It took a bit over an hour roll the stripper on (I tried the Shutz gun but I needed a smaller container, I tried to use a 10' hose and suck it out of the 5 gallon pail but that didnt work fer shite).

 

a few hours on the hotsy pressure washer and all paint was GONE!

 

Hoping to get it painted in the next month or so then get her back on floats and in the water!

 

:BC:

 

 

post-2-0-10072900-1431045134_thumb.jpg

post-2-0-65405600-1431045162_thumb.jpg

post-2-0-41313200-1431045177_thumb.jpg

post-2-0-86362300-1431045189_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Looks like progress Leni - Next Question:  SOP (Same Old Paint), or something sexier than Cessna?  Something Wild and Bright?  Something like the Orange Golf balls they use in the snow?

 I used Ford Truck paint on my Ercoupe.

Does BP paint their trucks Green and Yellow?......Hmmm.....

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Nothing wild... I don't need an easily identifiable plane.. kinda like my avid. 98% of the people who see my avid flying overhead would call it in as a red and white cub :lol:

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I have thought a lot about one color from the ground, and another when sitting at the airport !!!!

Sort of like the military - Camo on top, and white or powder blue on bottom....

EDMO

You could always paint that square tail to make it look round....No, that would show on the ground too...x-nay!

Maybe Larry has the right idea - Piper Cubs are mostly Yellow!  But that Red stripe should be Black.

Edited by Ed In Missouri
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hey Leni--  What ever happened to the Mummy?  Is the ex gonna get this one in the battle (I hope not)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0