NEW FARBIC - NO PAINT?

48 posts in this topic

Posted

Whoa! :o

 

How flippin' much -paint labor only- do guys normally sink into a SuperCub job up there??

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Posted

January's Experimenter had a mention of the German stuff... guy says $75 / sq yd.

See attached.

Oratex info.pdf

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Posted (edited)

I believe total cost for a Bang-up perfect job on our J3 was $3200.

This was using Stewarts high priced water paints, and painting it twice when the first color didn't look "Cub-Yellow".. Stewart changed manufacturers in the middle of our re-paint.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

$75 Oratex times 35 yards - now where is my calculator - does it compute that much?

Plus glue and tape, or including?

Now - where did I store the left-over latex house paint and roller!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

$75 x 35 Yards (a little low, IMO) is $2625.

 

$75 x 40 Yards (more realistic for an Avid or 'Fox)  is an even $3000

 

If you had a Cub covered for $3200 let me know where.  I'll ship my plane to them.  $10-12k to cover a Cub is more the minimum rate these days.

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Posted (edited)

We covered the J3 ourselves, and painted it twice.  40 yards of 2.7 fabric covered it.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Oooookay.  That makes more sense.  I figure that's about what I will have in the cover of the Mangy.

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Posted (edited)

Either High Country or Birddog486 posted that they covered and painted their bird for about $2000+ with Stewarts - he didn't put as many coats on his white / red bird as we put on the J3 - We covered the gray UV coats with white before using Cub Yellow, as Stewart recommended.  Maybe one of them will post their cost again?  Think they used 1.7 instead of our 2.7.

I am A&P and the IA signed off on the 337, so we were legal for the J3.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

I talked to Lars at the EAA meeting this week and got the prices; he says the Oratex 600 is $50 per sq yd and the Oratex 6000 is $75 per sq yd.   The 600 fabric is rated up to 1320 GW and the 6000 is good for 18000lb GW or something.  He recommends using the 6000 unless you plan to be strictly a pavement pounder since the 600 is very light and will not survive the rocks or brush damage very well.  There is not very much difference in the actual weight of the fabrics either but a whole lot of difference in strength.

 

The fabric standard width is 72" useable but can be special ordered up to 78" useable.

 

I did a quick scratch calulation to cover the wings only and it is about $2000 for just the fabric, with the tapes and glue being additional.

Edited by SuberAvid

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Posted (edited)

Randy,

      Thanks for the info - still have sticker shock, but will still be thinking about Oratex and NO-paint someday....

Maybe start a business for the old lady who lets me live with her?

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Thanks for the links.  Just spent a couple hours looking into it, and I think I'll be an Avidfox guinea pig.   It looks like putting the 600 on my new KF4 wings will save a ton of time and will be a better product than polyfiber.  Only problem is color.  I really don't want another coat of paint on the fuselage, but am not wild about painting the wings either.  My viable color options are cub yellow, a dark blue or white.   Am leaning toward white with blue flaperons to match current blue.  Already got rid of the orange tail feathers.   Maybe I'll just go with a circus clown approach and keep the wing covers on year round.

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Posted (edited)

I have to go back to the cheap fabric and Stewart process thru the UV, then some cheap paint. 

Oratex is just too spendy for a retiree!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Another way to save a bit is to buy now from Wicks.  They have a 10% sale going till the end of March on poly-fiber stuff.  Jim Chuk

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Posted (edited)

Avid Flyer being covered with Oratex 

 

Edited by Wolverine

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Posted

Thanks - interesting video.

The reason I will not go with Oratex is the cost -

      When we buy fabric such as Ceconite or Stits, it comes in about 70 to 72 inch width,

and is sold by the linear yard for about $8 to $10 per yard. 

      Oratex, comes in the same widths, but they count 72 inches wide by 36 inches long as 2 yards,

doubling the $75 per yard to $150 per linear yard for the 6000 series....

      Guess I will stay with American fabric, Stewarts glue, and some kind of cheap paint.

EDMO

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Posted

I can certainly see the advantages of using the Oratex, less mess, tools, time etc. But for those of us poor flying folks that time isn't worth as much as the money spent I guess we have to weigh that out. As for me, I'll be recovering with Dacron when the time comes, just due to the costs! Now I just wish we could use the heat activated glue for the Dacron like on the Oratex. that alone would make it much easier!

 

I rather enjoyed the music he had on the video as well. Guess I need to get me that one for when I'm covering!

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Posted

Well,

 

I can tell you one thing, lucky you "POOR" guys that the material are manufacture in USA, because of that,  I have to use such amount of money in Dangerous Goods and shipping cost, and that makes hell of a difference for me, your calculations Ed; are of course for USA, as of here in Europe..another story, plus, if you don´t have weather in your side, you will have to make a warm paint booth.

 

I just don´t see myself using any of the Old systems, next year I will recover the fuselage; and this is where I`m going for.

 

I´m very sure that in the future this prices are going lower, like any new stuff is always expensive in the beginning... once that happens, rest is going bye bye

 

 

Regards

Dimi3

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Posted (edited)

Kenneth,

        Your lucky day!  Stewart uses glue like that - except you only put it on the plane parts, let it dry, spread your Dacron, and hit it with an iron - after ironing, brush another coat of glue on, wipe it off quickly, and you are done.

  Get the video -

      Been there and done that - no more wet glue and MEK for me!

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri
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Posted (edited)

O.K. through all of this, do we have an estimate of what it would cost (total cost with glue and tapes) to cover a KF or Avid with Oratex (4K ish)?  I am fixing to start a cover of my plane (a Model III) and am currently planning to use Stewart Systems, but... do like the option of not having to deal with fill coats and top coats.  Mine will be a solid color and that is another driver.  A few folks sounded like they had intentions of trying.  Any feedback from those who have used it (and would they do it again)?

 

Larry S.

Edited by LSaupe

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Posted (edited)

The last price I saw on Oratex came out to be about $175 a yard - (maybe that's a mistake, and it was $75 a square yard?), anyway it costs a lot, while the other fabric runs about $8 to $10 a running yard, 70 inches wide. Note that Oratex prices are not for the complete width and running yard like Ceconite, but SQUARE yards, which can fool you.

One of the AFF guys finished his using Ceconite and the complete Stewart system for about $2000 for White and Red.

The Kitfox catalog says it takes about 35 running yards of fabric to cover a plane - this fabric is 70" wide, so it is almost equal to 70 Square yards.

EDMO

Added:   I seem to remember that the early Kitfoxes came with a lot less fabric than they now list.

          The list of covering materials and quantities needed is in the Kitfox catalog which you can download and print.

EDMO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Its been A while since I paid any attention to this thread.   So far I have one wing complete and the other one ready to cover.  Using the Oratex 600 was a piece of cake once I got the hang of shrinking it over aluminum.   (the aluminum on my leading edge sucked up much of the heat, requiring a more aggressive use of the iron)   I am guessing I have no more than 8 hrs covering the one wing, and it looks really good.  My Oratex cost for covering the wings was $3000, but I may have gotten more tape than I really needed since it comes in fixed length rolls.  Hope to get back to it in the next month.   Being the lighter of the two grades, the 600 is certainly not as tough as the 600, but it is still a lot tougher than the ceconite I had before.   I decided to use the 600 on the wings where there is less potential for rock damage.   If I was to do the whole plane, I would probably do 6000 on the belly and underside of tail and do the rest in 600.   For anyone who values his time and doesn't want the wife going on about the fumes, Oratex is great stuff.

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Posted

Being an old-fashioned American model builder, when watching that video I immediately noticed he was using a square iron... never seen one like that here. The felt pad was a great idea too.

 

My question about Oratex is how you are supposed to deal with the problem of glue blobs and glue edges that run out under the edges of fabric overlaps or pinked tape. Can you just wipe it off with solvent, without damaging the gloss finish? The glue will eventually get on the iron's surface, and then you start accidentally spreading nasty melted glue on your shiny fabric....

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