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Avid plus specs

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Posted

Hello everyone

I'm new to the board and currently thinking about looking at an avid plus in my local area. Is there anywhere to obtain specs for this model? The one I'm looking at has an ea81 Subaru on it. Thanks

T

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Posted (edited)

Hello everyone

I'm new to the board and currently thinking about looking at an avid plus in my local area. Is there anywhere to obtain specs for this model? The one I'm looking at has an ea81 Subaru on it. Thanks

T

If you dont get an answer on this, its probably because the right people have not noticed it here = go to AvidFoxFlyers General Hanger, and post on the Airdale post - You will get a response, or at least see the new phone numbers for Airdale - Bret, who has moved.

We have members flying this model, and 2 or 3 of us are flying Soobs.

Ed in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Hello T -

I saw that ad a few days ago and was going to call the owner to get the history on this one. It does not look like an Avid+ fuselage to me, and does not have a balanced rudder or tall vertical stabilizer. The tubing stringers don't follow the same shape as all other Avid+, whether full kit or upgrade fuse either IMO. Not really sure what's going on there, perhaps a very early Avid+ prototype? Let me know what you find out please.

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Posted

Thanks for the info on it that you had. Cook mn is not far away from me and I was gonna call this fellow to see if I could fly down and take a look at it. Possibly go for a ride. It seems pretty cheap so of course I have some reservations. I'm curious to know more about the avid plus model as for a relatively low cost investment it may just be what I'm looking for.

Tom

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Posted

That has me curious. It looks more like an early model KF rudder and fuse / door outline than an Avid. I wonder what the builder really did and what it is dunno.gif

Edit: According to the FAA database, it is a Raven. A kitfox/Avid clone.

BC.gif

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Posted (edited)

With the shape of the door cutouts and a baggage door, I was leaning toward some sort of Avid B Frankenstein or something, but a friggin' Raven?

How in the hell do you get off calling a Raven an Avid+... tsk, tsk... :handjob:

[edit: here's another Raven]

http://youtu.be/PKzEkXAghfA

Edited by dholly

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Posted

Run away! Run away! Run away!

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Posted

Run away! Run away! Run away!

How about a Raven that Airdale took in and did a stretch on it, and other mods? Any way to check with Brett?

As long as it is airworthy, I wouldn't care if it was Avid, Kitfox, Raven, Airdale, or Bastard.

ED in MO

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Posted

My smart assed remark is around the fact that the Ravin was a scratch built plane so the quality of welding could be very questionable. That being said if you are comfy with your inspection skills or are doing a total rebuild and can inspect everything the design is sound enough. Anything that has gone through Brett's shop will have been inspected very well. He is a very good fabricator and knows his trade.

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Posted (edited)

Stutter post. :hammerhead:

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted (edited)

My smart assed remark is around the fact that the Ravin was a scratch built plane so the quality of welding could be very questionable. That being said if you are comfy with your inspection skills or are doing a total rebuild and can inspect everything the design is sound enough. Anything that has gone through Brett's shop will have been inspected very well. He is a very good fabricator and knows his trade.

Agree - Welding can be either good or bad - Best to know your welder.

MINE IS BEING O/A WELDED at an FAA certified repair station. The welder there looked at the welds on my other factory-welded KF and did not care much for them.

I also had TIG welding done by an Air Force Welding Inspector at Boeing. He says that MIG welding, like Kitfox/Avid makes four different metals in parts of the weld, and would not have approved the process for Boeing.

So much for that, and sure that it can be debated a lot by folks who know welding better than I do. I can arc-weld for a machine shop, but wouldnt fly anything I welded - Would be too heavy to fly anyway. OOPS, FORGOT - Doctors told me to sell my welder before I lost another kidney to cancer !!!

BEST to have a good inspection on anything you buy or fly.

BTW: Havent seen any Soobs with floats before - Thought it was too heavy. Got mine off of a Pelican which was too heavy when put on floats with the Soob. I don't fly on floats or over water - CANT SWIM ! Rivers here drying up anyway.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

With the shape of the door cutouts and a baggage door, I was leaning toward some sort of Avid B Frankenstein or something, but a friggin' Raven?

How in the hell do you get off calling a Raven an Avid+... tsk, tsk... :handjob:

[edit: here's another Raven]

http://youtu.be/PKzEkXAghfA

Doug, or anyone,

I looked at the video of the Raven clone - Want to know what the gizmo is on top of IP where compass usually sets. Best I could make out was a round instrument with a small green and small red dot with some kind of scale above the dots.

Watizzit? Prices?

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Not sure what it is. Possibly a reserve lift indicator. dunno.gif

As far as the welding 4130 with GMAW your not going to get 4 different kinds of metal, it depends on the wire used (just as with any process) the transfere mode used (spray, gobular etc) and of course preheat / post heat. The dilution of the consumable wire is the key as most guys tend to run a little cold when using GMAW and they dont get good penetration and leave lots of cold lap / incomplete fusion. If you dont remove the mill scale from the tubes then you will have issues as well. I used the GMAW for putting in the Vee plates in the landing gear truss area and GTAW for the new longeron tubes and vertical fin tube replacement as well as the rudder post and hinge tubes. If its bracing, I will use the GMAW for full on tube replacements with butt welds I use GTAW and get full penetration onto the sleeve tube also. I hate stress risers!

You want to look at shitty welds that will scare the hell out of you, go take a look at a 1930-40 PA-18 or PA-12 or any other tube and fabric plane. HOLY SHIT! You would be AMAZED at how long a crappy weld will hold up when there really is not that much stress on it. I would be MUCH more worried about glue jiont and pop riveted assemblies than I would most any welded joint. Of course, take a good look at it, but chances are, if the damn thing has been flying since the 90's that the welds have been "service" tested and are just fine.

Edit: As far as welding processes being used by boeing versus avid/KF/Highlander/Rans etc... Let look at stresses involved and 1000 other variables before you just take it carte blanch that GMAW sucks for welding 4130 tubing. Last I looked Airbus and Boeing were not using rotax engines either but that does not mean its not the perfect marriage for an avid / kitfox type aircraft. Angel_Devil.gif

BC.gif

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Posted

The more I see chat here the less inclined I am to go even take a look at it. When I posted the original question I was mainly concerned about performance over much else. I know the sube is fat compared to other engine installs.

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Posted

Not sure what it is. Possibly a reserve lift indicator. dunno.gif

You want to look at shitty welds that will scare the hell out of you, go take a look at a 1930-40 PA-18 or PA-12 or any other tube and fabric plane. HOLY SHIT! You would be AMAZED at how long a crappy weld will hold up when there really is not that much stress on it. I would be MUCH more worried about glue jiont and pop riveted assemblies than I would most any welded joint. Of course, take a good look at it, but chances are, if the damn thing has been flying since the 90's that the welds have been "service" tested and are just fine.

Edit: As far as welding processes being used by boeing versus avid/KF/Highlander/Rans etc... Let look at stresses involved and 1000 other variables before you just take it carte blanch that GMAW sucks for welding 4130 tubing. Last I looked Airbus and Boeing were not using rotax engines either but that does not mean its not the perfect marriage for an avid / kitfox type aircraft. Angel_Devil.gif

BC.gif

Yes, I have seen welds that scare me on older planes - and they have been flying for 50 to 80 years now.

Every time I get a little worried about my Kitfox or my designs, I go down to the basement and watch a video of the old contraptions that men used to fly in - I come away a lot more confident in what we are doing today.

Anything can break, and Everything will deteriorate if not maintained - Inspections and maintenance are the most important lifesavers we have. I fly with MIG-welded airframes, and some of the old not-so-perfect welds on antiques, and none of them have broken unless the pilot hit something with them.

ED in MO

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Posted

Yes, I have seen welds that scare me on older planes - and they have been flying for 50 to 80 years now.

Every time I get a little worried about my Kitfox or my designs, I go down to the basement and watch a video of the old contraptions that men used to fly in - I come away a lot more confident in what we are doing today.

Anything can break, and Everything will deteriorate if not maintained - Inspections and maintenance are the most important lifesavers we have. I fly with MIG-welded airframes, and some of the old not-so-perfect welds on antiques, and none of them have broken unless the pilot hit something with them.

ED in MO

Yes sir! I have flown them with atleast 50% of the covering being duct tape LOL.. it is AMAZING how ragged out and tattered they can be and still fly fine! My brothers pacer has the paint peeling on the tops of the wings. I dont mean a little bit, I am talking chunks big enough sticking up that they look like damn lil spoilers, yet that plane flys straight, true, no bad stalls and normal stall speeds.. I dont get how one can be so screwed up yet fly normal..

Reminds me of a flight I did ferrying a PA 12 that had been on its back.. Talk about SCARY, the trailing edge was flapping in the breeze, an outboard engine 6 gallon tank strapped to the top of the fuse over the cabin the right wing tip sticking traight down and the left wing had a big bow in it. The tops of all the ribs were caved in up to the front spar.

I swear the damn thing flew like NOTHING was wrong with it other than anything over 80 MPH got the trailing edge and wing tip flapping pretty damn good and set up a good virbration. Below 80 she flew hands off ?????

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

The more I see chat here the less inclined I am to go even take a look at it. When I posted the original question I was mainly concerned about performance over much else. I know the sube is fat compared to other engine installs.

If it is convenient for me, I would go and take a look and get some specs on the performance. Any time you look at something you further your knowledge. If it does not suit you, then you will have more knowledge when you look at the next one. You never know what you may learn by looking - far cheaper than making a bad purchase, IMO.

Ask a lot of questions about how it was built/modified, who built it, what is the history of it, who did engine/redrive, etc.

I look at homebuilts any time I am invited if possible, even if it is a type that I would not want to own. Keeps me interested and believe it hones my inspection skills too. Sometimes a friend who goes with me will spot things I miss. All educational and fun.

Soobs are dependable and last a long time with little maintenance or repairs.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I agree with Ed; if it is convienient, at least check it out. See how long it has been flying, how many hours. Look at the engine/redrive install; it may be pretty well proven and trouble free. Look at as many of the welds as you can see and look at the overal quality of the other work if it was all done by the same builder. The Sube's are much heavier than the Rotax 2 strokes but that does not make them bad for the longer fusalage. I have flown both and they are both good performers but I do not think the Sube is a good fit for the stock Avid fuslalage (too nose heavy) and I doubt the 582 would be a good performer in the Avid plus (not enough HP for the weight). I plan to get my stock Avid 4 flying again with the 582 but when it comes to hauling a load, My Avid+ would be hard to give up now!

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